OK friends. I’m feeling isolated like so many of us and would love to have a long meandering conversation with you all. So what do you guys want to talk about today? Please feel free to chime in on other folk’s topics and questions (but let’s maybe not ask for or offer advice around personal issues…that can get weird fast).
(If you straight up have a question just for me, just put my name in your post and I will do my best.)
I'm wondering if anyone else is watching or has watched the show, ALONE? Normally this kind of thing has no appeal to me, but I AM OBSESSED. They send 10 people out to remote areas with video cameras (they do all the filming themselves) and 10 tools of their choosing and a sat phone (for medical emergencies or to "tap out" and go home) and then they try and survive through finding food, making fire, building shelter etc... So these folks are truly alone for sometimes months. What I find fascinating is: 1. the ingenuity some of these folks show. Like, in season 3 this amazing woman built a quite beautiful living space for herself, and at once point, make a sauna and a stringed instrument. OUT OF NATURE! 2. The mindset and attitudes that fare well or do not fare well in that situation. 3. How often their thoughts turn to regrets and how important their families are. Anyhow - of anyone else watches I would love to know what you think. It originally aired on the History channel but is now streaming on HULU
In this isolation,specially in the first three months,I turned into creating in my home. Decluttering,donating clothes,ect. Concentrated in fine tuning my abilities to cook. Been reading a lot ( specially your last two books) Opening up to new musical genres(jazz,dub reggae) Bible studies. Churning small readings to my church's Whatsapp group since we were limited to go to services. I have been thru turmoil since 2019 with my divorce,I had to reinvent myself. So far in 2020 things have been turning around. Loneliness has turned into my ally to discover myself.
I would just like isolation at home for maybe 4 days. I've been married for 28 years, have 4 kids, 2 of the adult children live with us. Even when I think I may get just 1 night alone someone has a night off work or something happens. With my husband now working from home, I'm going a little crazy. If it wasn't for a pandemic & winter, I'd escape for a just me trip. I know I would start by indulging with food, desserts, alcohol and romance movies... All the things I don't do with a household of men coming in and out.
Yes, sometime there is just too much testosterone in the house. I suggest carving out a place in your house or in the yard, that is just for you. Even if it is just a corner of a room! Let everyone know when you are there, you are not to be disturbed. Strong boundaries necessary! Perhaps you can take a day trip to someplace peaceful. I firmly believe in self care...it is a holy practice and a spiritual discipline.
Oh my gosh, right?! We have three of our six adult children living with us, as well as a niece and her seven and eight year olds AND a 20 year old great nephew! I had one hour alone in the house sometime a few months ago and it was just way too short. Along with all those people who live here we have their friends coming over everyday. I love and enjoy each and every one of them, but I feel like I'm living in a frat house! There is someone awake in this house almost 24 hours/day. I would be happy with one day to myself!!
Ha ha! The grass is always greener... We started married life in a shared house, then had 4 kids. Lived in a run down areabut great neighbours, community spirit, church just round the corner. Never a day went by without someone popping in for a cuppa or inviting me in. Then we moved to another part of the country where people are suspicious of strangers, I barely even SEE the neighbours, we go to a church a bus ride away, no one lives near us, I have no job now and the children are grown and moved out. My husband loves it being just us, but not a day goes by without me wishing for those times. And now, with covid....
Go on a trip anyway! I have to do this at least every 3 months. I rent an AirBNB for like $50 or $100 a night and I go away for a weekend. Usually it's somewhere like a cabin where I can hike. I love the nature/quiet. I read/write and listen to music and go for a run and usually it's somewhere that has animals like a horse or goat farm and I pet all the animals and find some peace. I have an 8 year old stepson and a 44 year old husband (who acts like an overgrown 13 year old) and I love them to pieces but sometimes the two of them can be a little much and I have to get away. it's really good for my mental health, and my husband completely understands that this is self care and he encourages me to go.
I'm not one to talk about being alone, we just had our 36th anniversary. Perhaps being alone is only bad when you know how good it is to NOT be alone with people you care about and care about you. But as a species our brains evolved in ways that our thinking revolves around living in a small group of people, so I suppose that the craving is always there, but some people have smaller social networks that others for whatever reason.
I'm always curious about those shows; we used to watch the Bear Grylls show where they drop him in remote places. It always featured him eating a bug or a snail or something. Except there was a camera crew there with him...
One of the best gifts I got for Christmas was from one of my mom's friends; it was a survival book, and featured tanning hides and stuff like that. You need to use deer brains for that. Some of those survival skills are things one might want to learn to do, and then not do those things.
The deer brains remind me of the Foxfire series of books & how creative/ingenious/resourceful people can be. (Thinking I might try something from them while Ohio is coooold)
I don't have the book anymore; I think I remember getting an impression that the writer was Mormon...they get into the pioneer stuff. I wonder if I could find that book...1974 vintage.
I used to have several of the Foxfire books, including the one on building rustic banjos...
I read that book back in the late 60s/early 70s and was fascinated. Now I find myself questioning: why did it take a white person pretending to be Black for us to believe the experience of Black people? Did we not believe the testimony of Blacks themselves?
I have never heard anyone else mention that book. I randomly found it when I was a teenager (30 odd years ago). I think it really planted the seeds for my anti-racism attitudes because it certainly didn't come from my family or my all white upbringing. I recently reread it and this copy had an afterward and it was so good.
Unless there is another book with the same title, I read this one my freshman year at the University of Georgia in 1991. My US history professor assigned the book. I still have my copy - the book had such an impact on me.
My goodness I read that when I was only 8-10 in the 1960s because my grandma owned it and it fascinated me as naive white kid. You make me want to find it again and see how I think of it at 60-something in my world today.
That was my favorite episode because she was at peace. Creative. And creating comfort. Her mind was as beautiful and strong as her body. Her words were peaceful and content. I wanted her to be out there the longest not to win, but just to enjoy herself. I'm glad you brought this up because in the dead of Wisconsin winter right now, it's a good reminder to find peace in the quiet.
Okay, I had a feeling you might be my soulmate, now I know for sure!! That show is so so good!!! I was obsessed with it at the beginning of the pandemic- not my typical show. But I felt that there were so many good teachings. I actually felt HP lead me to that show and said, “learn about how to survive alone.” Shortly after my beloved was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer (we have two young children). Now, I’m not saying that show is saving my life or anything, but it damn sure gave me inspiration and showed me what true bravery, ingenuity, trust etc. looks like.
Damn, I can’t believe you mentioned this show. For sure my soulmate 🥰
Same - not a usual pick for me, but 12 yr old wanted to watch together. I've only seen the season in the Arctic - and holy smokes. It's jaw dropping what people (a) CAN do and (b) WANT to do (said someone who gets grumpy when it's too cold for flip flops (e.g. below 60).
I have watched every one twice and I cant figure out how they are not all having panic attacks. Do they all have secret stashed of valium? I mean- well-adjusted people. That being said, I am fascinated by the guy who was storing food and not eating to the point where he had to be removed for medical reasons. I found this a metaphor for how we offer compassion for others but not ourselves. I found this a metaphor for many things. I have all of this but I am afraid if I use it I might run out. It has also been really wild watching it while isolated in a pandemic. Thankful for the perspective it gives me. Wow- I have running water!
DAVE! He's my favorite. And then when he's back in season 5, he has an intense emotional reaction to killing...I'm so moved by the fact that most contestants thank the animals they kill for food. They aren't just thankful FOR the food, but thankful TO their food. It's just heart-wrenching to watch them move beyond gratitude to despair.
On a lighter note, ALONE is the way I bond with my father-in-law. Football? Forget it. A mandolin made out of nature? Pull up a chair.
Reminds me of Chris McCandless. He's the guy that gave up his family's life of massive wealth and lived like a gypsy for a while seeking an independent life of solitude and zero attachments to people or things. He ended up in the Alaskan wilderness alone where he realized that humans are meant for relationship with other humans. In his last few days of life (they think he accidentally ate a poisonous plant), he wrote in his diary that "Happiness is only real when shared."
I haven't watched it yet, but (sort of) related, did you see the news story about the Cubans who survived on a remote island in the Bahamas after their boat sank? They ate coconuts and rats for a month. That's some serious survival.
Oh yeah, so I saw that headline last night and thought “best wait to read the details until the daylight!” And true that, a serious survival framework-
Always looking for suggestions. Thanks. Watched Life Below Zero the Next Generation the other night. That’s how bored I was...it is interesting though.
My wife and I discovered this awhile back and watched the whole series and loved it. So many interesting things to learn - wilderness skills, how they cope with the isolation. We also loved a series on Netflix about a group of couples who are learning different survival skills to see if they and their relationship are strong enough to take over a homestead in remote Alaska from an elderly couple.
My husband and son have watched a lot of it. They loved it! I don't have anything smart to add because that kind of show stresses me out. I think they found it pretty good for family viewing, though, if others are interested.
My favorite show! I was obsessed. I think there was another season on Netflix I think.That gorgeous space she built and the instrument were fabulous. The Arctic season was my favorite because of the harshness of the environment. It’s always fascinating to me how some of the men literally build the tiniest little simple shelters but the women build these beautiful spaces.I have two recommendations if you loved Alone. I believe it’s called The Worlds Toughest Race. It blew my mind. It was extreme team racing in the harshest and harrowing circumstances imaginable. It was edge of your seat jaw dropping. Also have you seen the You Tube videos of the women who use machetes and hack out the jungle to create these magical houses made with mud. Some even had mini swimming pools.They are astounding. I’ll get more info for you . ❤️
My husband was obsessed and asked me to watch some with him. I thought I would last an episode but now I’ve watched six seasons! I’m fascinated by the contrast of attitudes. I too love the lady who made a chair as the very first thing she did so she could sit and appreciate her new home, and absolutely thrived by ‘becoming one’ with the environment. Versus Larry who was angry at everything, took joy in killing the annoying mice yet manage to last almost to the end with a “white knuckling it” kind of vibe. A good metaphor for life and noticing who I would prefer to be.
I have not seen it, but will go watch it now. I've been obsessed with this concept. And for that reason, I'm so looking forward to Robin Wright's film, "Land." Though I'm an extrovert, I've loved this year of solitude. Of not having to keep saying NO to things I don't want to do. #thepandemic. I've loved being with me and doing what I want to do right at home.
I LOVE Alone! I've been watching it off and on lately. I'm not sure if you've gotten to Season 5 yet (that's where I am) but it's called "Redemption" and they bring back contestants from past seasons that had to tap out for one reason or another. It's been fun to see familiar faces and learn about Mongolia, where the season takes place.
I hope you remember meeting me because I sure remember meeting you. Dear Pastor Nadia, You may never see this message though I hope you do. You are an influential person in my answering and embracing my calling to ministry. I heard you speak in Atlanta and asked you a question about my calling, and what you said inspired me, and I will never forget it. After her talk and sermon, she took questions from the audience, and I was honored to ask her, “What advice would she give me a queer multi-racial person who has been hurt by religion yet is called to ministry”? I will never forget what she said. You just looked me in the eyes and said, “Bless you, my friend,” and continued to talk about the love, bravery, and witness that I expressed in asking such a question. This moment was the first time I had my calling affirmed in a public space, and it helped me see that I was indeed on the right path. I just wanted to let you know that I was accepted into seminary and start this Fall! Keep being your awesome badass self, and thank you for believing in me.
“This is the day the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it.” I have been home for one month since spending ten days in the hospital being treated for pneumonia and testing positive for the virus. I need to have a procedure repeated and see my lung specialist. Wife received her first vaccination and is due for the second comes March. I get my first comes the end of March.
My granddaughters laughing at me when I share what my dogs and I have been doing. I love farting Ketchup bottles. Also videos of my grand dog at doggy day card playing with his dog friends
I have done that some sort of thing so many times. After this scenario is all over I do have to laugh at myself. Is that putting your foot in your mouth?
Or when you mistakenly send a chat message to the wrong person because you don’t realize their name is highlighted. I once sent an “emoji sexting guide” to a (psychotherapy) client, thinking I was sending it to my husband. 🤪
so true! a niece will post things her four year old son has said and I find such humor and truth mixed in there - the latest "I'm going to find my HAPPY place because THIS is NOT it!" as he marched away......
i love Live at Snack Time...so funny. i work in a preschool and i hear some doozies...the stuff kids come out with... On friday a little girl was sitting beside me drawing and she stopped and stuck out her tongue and sort of poked it with her finger a few times. and she said "Oh..Claire Bear! I have a real life tongue!!! Its a real life one!!! she was very surprised. :)
Flat track roller derby, very much UNLIKE what would have been on tv or in Whip It. I’m “oh gnome u don’t”, the head non skating official for the Ohio Roller Derby, a Women’s Flat Track Derby Association member.
Online videos of watching other people laugh always get me going. What I can't stand are the Funniest Home Video types that show people falling after doing something dangerous. My husband has a traumatic brain injury (severe) and it pains me to see people putting themselves into danger, and then having other people laugh at their near-disastrous results.
I used to enjoy those but I don't know what changed for me, I can't watch that kind of video anymore. Maybe I'm too empathetic. Particularly falls bother me.
I have worn hearing aids for several years. Therefore, often my husband and I have rather interesting conversations. Here's one of the funniest: We have a sansevieras (plant) which was drooping from its weight. Hubby showed me two embroidery hoops which he said he planned to put on our sansevieras (to hold it upright). I replied, "Not on mine, your're not. If you want, knock yourself out on your own". I thought he had said, "I'm going to put them on our sensitive areas." (Hope this isn't too risque for you readers!)
I have three foster kittens right now. They are Mr. Mischief, Mr.Into Everything, and Mr Who, Me? I laugh at them all day long as I try to contain their enthusiasm.
Memes - there have been some lately that made me laugh out loud - especially weather related - also videos especially animal videos. Pandas in the snow at the national zoo!
We are laughing at the very tragic show, 'Shameless" on Netflix. It's tragic, ironic and brazenly funny and very well written and acted- and definitely NOT a family show. But here we are hooked and laughing (most of the time). It is also tender and poignant but those times are rare.
Jimmy Fallon hashtags on YouTube One time things were tense with my mom and we couldn’t seem to shake it so I showed her this one, and now we have an inside joke to lighten the mood “Ham Slapped” https://youtu.be/f0QfUrYKOhw
Nadia, there are a number of writers I've read in recent years, even popular among Christians, that focus a lot on personal happiness. I am a therapist and I am all for personal happiness, but I get uncomfortable with what sometimes seems like, "if it makes me happy then God must be for it." Do you see this cultural trend in Christian thinking and what do you think?
Leave it to us to pawn off narcissism as a virtue. I see this in some of the "self care" stuff. I guess I always go back to my Lutheran understanding of "simul justus et peccator" simultaneously sinner and saint. Meaning that I try to stay sufficiently suspicious of myself while also remembering that I am God's beloved. So that means trying to maintain a humility about my own motives and propensity for self-justification.
Yes, I like that, thank you. It also reminds me of Anne Lamott's saying "you can safely assume you've made God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do." It's just the reverse - maybe I'm making God in my own image if God likes and wants for me all the same things I do! At least I should be suspicious.
I have never heard anyone say to stay sufficiently suspicious of myself. Love it! As someone who works with the Ennegram I’ve become more conscious of my motives for doing what I do. Surprise! They aren’t always honest or humble!
Nadia do you also see though that—especially in evangelical culture—the one I grew up in also a PK and MK (pastor’s kid and missionaries’ kid)—we’re almost scum and can’t look at ourselves in any other light than as sinner in desperate need of rescue?
By that I mean—in case for some reason I’m not making sense—the focus is more on being a sinner rather than made in God’s image—which implies some goodness and being that God sacrificed their Son for us implies our value—that the word Grace has been misused?
I grew up feeling like I was pretty much shit and nothing was good about me, it’s just God. That I was to “die daily” and live in total humility and sacrifice.
I also had trauma in my life with assault and abuse so it just fed the fact that I felt worthless.
I came upon a group of people through some therapy that talked of my gifts and goodness and self love that is necessary and self care—Jesus himself being the very example of self care when he went to the mountain to be restored by the angels—but I was never taught that as a kid.
40+ years of hearing one thing only to be told something else makes it so hard to retrain my brain. And I’m still not convinced about how I should view myself or how I should live.
Not to mention the fact that even though I’m in a committed marriage and love my husband I came out as Bi—not necessarily to give myself a label but to finally accept that as ok because I had to suppress that in my evangelical circles and it has caused A LOT of anger towards the church for me and now I’ve even become angry towards God even questioning their existence.
Ok I know that’s A LOT and yes I see a therapist and she’s a believer herself but doesn’t shove that down my throat so there’s that.
Anyway I hope some of that made some sense and you’ll be able to respond I know there’s a lot of people on here.
My therapist LOVES you by the way!!! My hubby and I do too.
I relate to the PK MK+ Abuse issues. My therapist sees it quite often in paternal, evangelical, authoritarian Christianity. I've read some disappointing statistics about that, proving her point.
This resonates with me. My act of contrition, which was burned in my mind and I recited it often to “cleanse my sins” actually had this line: I deserve to be punished. That’s how I lived my life until I tried to debrief beginning in my 40s. It is traumatic! God and Jesus are love not punishers! Yes there are consequences for sin but that’s not God punishing me!
While I have never experienced actual abuse, I completely relate to the doctrine of worthlessness. Sadly it's only in the last few years that I've recognized it - that daily prayer of "God I am incapable without you" was crushing me and leading me to guilt about good I did have. My children were born easily and healthy, and I felt so guilty about it but also wholly incapable of being their mother. It takes a conscious effort on my part to reframe it: to say thank you for the good things and to believe that I am good enough to receive them.
Driving DoorDash makes others happy because I’m bringing food which in turn almost always makes me happy. And when something surprising slips in it can light up the whole day for both of us. The other day a delivery to a lady with multiple music tats prompted my comment about liking the group ‘Queen.’ And she immediately showed me her left arm tat of Freddie Mercury. That was around 2:00 p.m. Still smiling with joy for that delivery; now shared with all of you. 🦋🕉❤️✝️🌅
Someone once told me that true joy comes from knowing God and giving to others. Happiness is fleeting and based on circumstances. It’s complicated but that rings true for me.
Yes. This is where it lands for me. I did happiness. I found it a far distant second place to joy. Happiness is more like cotton-candy-coating my life; joy is more like deeply treasuring and savoring my life and the lives of those I touch, even when there's pain. And yes -- deep joy comes from loving and being loved in the Jesus way -- the hard way. I walked the cancer journey with my son and held his hand as he crossed over at age 29. We knew lots of pain; we knew lots of joy. I saw seekers of happiness and comfort turn away. I saw seekers of Christ-love and Christ-joy dig in more deeply.
Great question Amy, I wonder about that as well. Believing that happiness is sign of things being right, I guess that means you must really trust and know yourself. Someone must really have a good grasp on what happiness means for them versus a fleeting satisfaction or comfort.
Nadia, not a question but a story. I heard and I terview with you years ago on NPR. I have not attended a regular church every Sunday for years but I still read scripture, pray, and try to live the life God would want me to live daily. However, I was driving and could not write down your name down. By the time I arrived at my destination, the interview was over and I had forgotten your name. I searched for you as best I could but could not find you. Then last summer a friend of mine posted something about you on Facebook. "Praise Jesus! I found her!" I signed up for a subscription and followed you on Instagram that day. Thank you for your prayers and wonderful messages. I am one of those people in the corners and so are many of friends.
Nadia I am really struggling with the rise of religious fundamentalism. How is it that I, as a non Christian gay woman, can sit under your ministry, be comforted by your words of reconciliation and believe in the philosophical underpinnings that you direct your audience too, but then get so easily violated by the rhetoric of Christians who think its genuinely okay to say 'I don't agree with you being gay but I can respect you'. How do you even begin to challenge a statement like that? Its homophobia cloaked in niceness and makes it difficult to challenge. Yet how do I help a teacher with this view realise how hurtful and undermining such a comment is to her students who are gay. Please try and help me to understand how you can totally accept different sexual orientations while many Christians can't. I know a Christian absolutely dedicated to the fight against racism, but will not join in the fight against homophobia? How is it possible to be stand for social justice but only address those issue that challenge your religious views? Sorry for the ramble.
Humans can twist anything beautiful and make it ugly. Including Jesus and his teachings and power. It makes me sad too. But I for one, am glad you are here. Welcome.
Gays are God's gift to humanity. Most of gay friends and family I know have unbelievable talents and the pain of fear and discrimination they have endured often marks them as wonderfully sensitive beautiful people.
I woke up dwelling on alone-ness and isolation this morning as well - not with the show - I will check it out. I actually was having a bit of a pity party. I am going through a divorce after 19 years of marriage. My husband who I crushed on even in my teens turns out to be someone totally different from what I thought. He is a narcissitic, and I find it hard to look back on those 19 years and find times when he wasn't lying to me and/or invovled in an inappropriate relationship with other women. But that is digressing I guess. I was acutely aware this morning that while I have lots of friends and family who I know love and support me, there is an aspect of grief that is utterly lonely and personal. I have known acute grief before. I became a widow when I was 29 years old. I truly thought I wouldn't survive losing what I now know was the "love of my life". But with God's help, I most certainly did. I never thought I would grieve on that level again, but while different, this grief is also familiar..... in its loneliness. In moments like this, only God truly knows my pain and the depth of that pain, and only God can truly walk me through this. So, I find myself utterly alone, again, except ........God. Thank God!!
Nadia, what was the defining moment for you? What make you know that this is what you needed to be doing? I have adored you from afar (and lurked in most of your corners) for years.
In my first memoir, Pastrix (which is being re-issued in May with a new piece from me) describes how I was asked by all my friends if I could do our friend PJ's funeral after he died by suicide. I hadn't gone to seminary of anything like that at the time, I was just literally the only religious person in our friend group. His funeral was at the Comedy Works (he was a comic) and looking out at the comics and recovering alcoholics and queers I thought "These people need a pastor" and then I thought "Oh shit."
That story brings up a question I have been thinking about for a while....why is it that communion must be served by someone “licensed, certified, ordained, whatever”? I would find it more meaningful to receive communion from some of my close friends than from a clergy I didn’t have a relationship with. Is this something that was just made up?
I come from a tradition where anyone can serve communion - and we do! I'm ordained, but part of what I love about the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) is that all are welcome to the table - and that all can serve. My young children serving me communion has surely been some of the most humbling and beautiful moments of my life.
I will be forever grateful that when at a Lutheran women's retreat we gave each other communion. I was able to give communion to my precious mother. It has comforted me in my grief in the loss of her.
I'm a life-long CC DOC member and the equality of all (clergy and laypersons--especially the inclusion of WOMEN at every level) is what keeps me in this denomination.
I'm CC DOC also. I was scheduled one Sunday to say the communion prayer at the table and upon arriving at church was told I had to switch and do the Words of Institution because our intern (who was going to Presbyterian seminary) was not allowed to say them because she was not yet ordained. I have to say I was a little dumbstruck. The words are in the Bible...how can it be we think it's appropriate only certain people in certain situations can say them? My appreciation for the power of lay people in the DOC church was cemented that day. I did not grow up DOC and I think I appreciate it all the more because I came to it as an adult.
Communion is a sacrament. A Sacrament can only be transformed into the body and blood of , instituted, by an ordained person. Of course if it is an emergency scenario, for example, the battlefield, anyone can do this and even do it with a ritz cracker and water. If one believes it will happen. I hope I am corrrect in this assumption taken from my studies.
I'm a Disciple, too. In our church, communion is jointly served by our pastor and two elders (at least during non-COVID times). I'm so grateful it is the center of each worship service. It grounds me and reminds me why I am in a church community in the first place.
Any congregant can serve communion once consecrated and I volunteer whenever there is an opening. This service is one of my greatest joys. To bring the body and blood of our Savior and Lord to the congregation of which I am a member is..... no word can describe.
Debbie - yessssss!!!! My favorite service of all time was when we passed communion from person to person within the congregation - to me it felt like the original intent of being in community and remembering Christ's importance.
Yes! I’m Catholic, and when I taught at a Catholic high school we would “pass the plate” at retreats. I remember so many teens not being able to look each other in the eye while saying “the body of Christ.” This is why I think some instruction or training would be useful for Eucharistic ministers. We older Catholics are used to a fast “assembly line” style of distribution by priests who seem willing to just want to get it over with quickly so they can get back to whatever else they do. Now that lay ministers (gasp!) distribute communion (This is Post-Vatican II and pre-Covid) in my experience most of them are much more engaged with the person receiving. When I served at weekly high-school Masses, I always looked the communicant in the eye, held the host right up to their face, and kept it there til they made eye contact with me, even saying their name if I knew them. This was always a profound experience for me, as I often served to former or current students, some of whom may have had a difficult time in school. Imagine the connection, over the body of Christ, with a student who’d be taking a test in my class later that day, or to whom I’d given detention the week before! Those were holy moments indeed!
P.s. maybe ordained priests think the important part is consecration, not distribution, whereas I think it’s the sharing that completes the sacred act.
Totally love what you wrote. I am a Eucharistic minister in a Catholic church and I love distributing communion. It is such a spiritual interaction. It's like the Holy Spirit fills you with grace to share with another .
I was raised catholic, went to catholic school for 10 years, and know exactly what you mean by “assembly line” communion. The effect is desensitization and it sends the message to kids that there’s no real, deeper meaning. It’s nice to read all these posts.
Hi Debbie, Episcopal priest here, and I want to respond to the PS - for me it is a whole, both the calling of the Spirit to make this bread and wine a sacrament (sign) and holy and then the distribution to the Beloveds before me. It has been one of the things I have missed most during COVID - that looking into faces and eyes and giving them the "bread of heaven" as we say. In my tradition Eucharist is a communal act - I do not have Eucharist alone but only with others. I am so waiting for that day when again we can have those profound moments when ew connect with God and one another in this way.
I agree! I’m UMC also, and we have lay ppl serve communion regularly, we’ve served it across tables to each other for special holidays, and I’ve had the extreme gift of having communion in my home with a group with whom I’d conducted a book study. Our last meeting was shortly after I had undergone surgery, so we wrapped it up at my house with communion at the very end. We also bring communion to our shut-ins. It is consecrated first, but many of us are quite accustomed to serving or receiving from a friend either during a service or in other circumstances (Pre-COVID). I find that quite beautiful, all of it, from reading the words before and during giving communion, as well as receiving. It feels personal and maybe a bit more authentic at times.
Part of what makes the church transformational for me is the fact that it is not made up of my friends. I am forced to be in relationship with anyone who wanders in off the streets, including a number of people I would avoid if I could. Sharing communion with them is a powerful event.
Ordination is just the process the gathering uses to determine who to entrust with the role of serving communion. The church makes it really complicated, but really anyone the gathering chooses could fill that role.
I love your description of what makes church transformational for you. That is exactly as it should be. Sadly, I find so many churches one dimensional in terms of membership. I’m seeking the transformational community you are describing. Again sadly, I know quite a few folks that have been ordained who I don’t think should be entrusted with communion. A human problem to be sure.
Hi Debbie! In my denomination (UMC), anyone can serve communion once it has been consecrated by ordained clergy. We regularly have communion served by "regular folks", sometimes even confirmands or youth group members. <3
I feel it is more about my relationship with God. Every time I eat bread or drink wine I feel a communion with my God. We optionally receive communion by zoom these days.
Hey Laurie - I am a Methodist, on my conference’s BOM, a delegate to our annual conference and have served communion many times. I understand what the Book of Discipline says but I also know there are things in the Book of Discipline that I’m pretty sure Jesus wouldn’t have said or didn’t really care about. Isn’t the Book of Discipline just a set of rules written by humans?
But ordained deacons may do baptisms - they cannot preside over full liturgy of Communion without special dispensation if the bishop and even then it is restricted to location - human rules. I just wonder if the Holy One is at all concerned about that sort if thing?
I too come from a UMC background and while yes, anyone can “serve” Communion AFTER and ordained clergy-person has preformed the proper liturgy AND anyone, truly anyone, can receive Communion there are rules about who can preform the liturgy. IMO it has become sort of a political thing. It is one of the things that can (and does sometimes) create a them-and-us between clergy and congregation. For me it is all a human thing. One of the ways we humans have chosen to set apart and give “authority “ (in the UMC it is called sacramental authority) to those who have met the institution’s “bar” to be an ordained clergy-person. How that happens differs depending on where you are geographically and a lot of other variables. In short - who can and cannot have “sacramental authority” is a human determination. If you step outside denomination world anyone can “preside” and provide Communion experiences. THAT is where I now live.
The ordained person has studied and prior to the start of study they were, as I call it, nudged by the Holy Spirit. They have been called to serve our Lord. Have known one person who studied but am sure was not called as this person was not a person of and with God. Once called, and studying has been completed and the call committee meets with and feels this person is truly devote enough to serve then they graduate seminary and can be ordained. Peter was the first to be ordained by Jesus and called. Then people were given this special privilege to bless the bread and the wine to transform it into the body and blood of Jesus. I believe if you do not believe this occurs then for you it is not the body and the blood, just a piece of bread and some wine.
This is such an important question.....for years I have been bothered by the notion that "regular" people can't "legally" gather and share communion together without some "ordained" man setting it up. I don't think that's what Jesus said at all....I think He wanted us to gather and remember what He did for us by celebrating communion together. I don't need (or frankly want) an intermediary in that celebration. And to be able to gather with others who want to celebrate together feels very sacred to me, even (especially) if someone hasn't said some "magic words" over it before hand.
I went to receive and the woman Eucharist minister was a woman that had demonized a another family in the church..it was a personal thing and she had an audience....and it was ugly and untrue....I could not receive from her...I tried but got out of line and left...and could not return..
So I guess my point is that to have the privilege of giving out the bread of life is sacred ...and I know there is judgement here...but to have that honor you should be someone who is trying very hard to be worthy of that...
I found another church...but I miss the comfort of my old church and then Covid,,,,, I may not have the bread...but I have the wine! I miss the church dearly ..I just don’t know where it is anymore.
Agree!!There doesn’t need to be intermediary. Not in my view. It is sacred but so are we.I think Jesus loves that we gather with friends and celebrate communion as well. Cheers to the tiny tumblers of wine and the mini crackers. 🦋
Hi, Debbie! There are two legs to answer your question. They both have to do with church history and how various denominations look at Sacraments. Both have roots in the Western catholic church. On the sacramental leg, a lot of churches still believe in transmutation. In other words, the bread and wine literally or figuratively become the body and blood of Christ. So, they figure that someone who is ordained has knowledge and empowerment to make that so. The church history leg rather strongly depends on that, as the liturgical branches (Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, etc.) come out of that RC tradition.
While many the other end of the reformed traditions (Baptists, Congregationalists, etc.) did away with much of the RC tradition, some of that theological viewpoint still sticks. And with the rise of educated and professional clergy, there has been an internal drive to ensure that ordained people perform the traditions.
Personally, I'm with Nadia. Although I'm ordained, I believe Christ never meant his memory's consecration to be taken so thoroughly out of his follower's hands. When he says, "Do this in remembrance of me," I think that is what he meant, and the centuries long route was instead a deep rabbit-hole.
It depends on your faith. I attend a United Church of Christ Congregational Church and at contemporary services communion is served every week by by intinction...that is a person tears off a piece of bread directly from someone and dips it in a cup. We usually have 4 stations set up - one option is served by a minister and the rest are served by deacons. As a former deacon it was very jarring to be the one serving communion. Very much, "who am I to serve at this table???" but after a period of time it became a very spiritual practice.
My UMC often did Communion this way when we had in-person services. Now, 'it's do it another way or forget it.' Different times require different practices. We're fine with doing it at home w/o benefit of clergy.
Yes, in COVID times we are completely virtual and we take communion at home however it works for those who participate. I was speaking to when we did in person services :)
My UMC continues to have only Livestream services. My husband is on the reopening committee and they meet regularly via Zoom to assess the current local Covid situation. Their decisions are based on data, not on wishful thinking. As always, Communion is observed on the first Sunday of each month, with worshippers at home participating with their own version of bread and wine. Recently we used Snapple peach tea and corn chips, and guess what...no lightening strikes appeared! Conversely, I am staff pianist for a Presbyterian congregation (PCA, not USA). This group has Communion every Sunday and must be administered by an ordained minister. They continue to hold two services each Sunday morning. I do not feel comfortable attending during the pandemic, so on Saturday mornings I record all their music including hymn accompaniments, my prelude, postlude, and meditative music for use during Communion. In addition to being used in their services, my music is sent via email to those worshipping at home. However....they do not include my Communion music as they do not want people partaking of Communion at home. This seems to me to be another case of man-made rules.
Yes it does! I have a friend that used Girl Scout cookies and milk for communion. No lightening strikes there either and I think those examples are symbolic of the “come as you are” approach of Jesus.
I'm a Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) Minister, and we celebrated Communion at Easter with chocolate eggs and juice instead of bread and wine for the kids present. There were complaints from the adults - that it wasn't chocolate for all!
This resonated with me. Over the years, I’ve purchased GS cookies from the daughters of many friends. I felt like I was participating in their growth and development by supporting their GS troop. Then everyone grew up and I just bought cookies occasionally from girls selling at supermarkets. Then COVID. This year, I bought GS cookies online from the daughter of a friend in another state, and one again, I felt happy about supporting another girl’s participation in GS. So yes, communion.
Hi.samo samo here. My (ex-)presb dictators would not let me serve communion to my youth group. Big opp missed, (shhhh, don't tell, but we might have squeezed in a couple, on the road)
Elders are ordained, I believe. I grew up Presbyterian but later became a Baptist minister. So I am relying on memory! In my local church we ordain deacons. They distribute the bread and cup.
Wow. That’s a really rude comment. She is a Deacon. And you shouldn’t be telling someone she isn’t something that she is. And yes she can serve communion and is ordained. After that post I’d never go to your church.EVER.That was same word and same big caps you wrote. Several strikes against you to be a woman in a position in the church? I told Janice I wouldn’t have given such a nice answer if you had sent me this message. Maybe you need to go to another church to learn some manners and respect .
You seriously need to check your own self. Your response is churlish, childish, and inexcusable. If this is indicative of the caliber of participation here, I'm not sticking around. Way to ruin things.
Actually, I WAS a Deacon snd we had other female Deacon at Broadway Presbyterian Church in NYC in 1998-2000. And we did serve communion. I do not know where you get your information from but what you are saying is not correct. IF you still doubt, I am sure the church would confirm this info. Their number is 212.864.6100.
This is a really nice reply to that person not believing you were a deacon.I wouldnt have been as polite. You re awesome. You don’t have to leave a phone number for them to check for themselves. Your word is good enough. Keep doing good work💜💜💜
Hi Debbie, I think the point of ordained is accountability. I appreciate that one cannot go off half-cocked making up things about communion with little understanding of the sacredness of the act, the grounding in scripture, the joining with those past, present and future. I want the person consecrating (making holy, setting apart) to have dedicated his or her life to a deep understanding of what we are doing . I knew a minister (who jumped from denomination to denomination) who thought it would be clever to consecrate M&M's and Coke for a children's Eucharist. Thank God there were other, more prepared people around him who dissuaded him from actually doing it.
Currently I have a foot in two denominations . With online services, one church has, at times, suspended communion and at other times consecrated the bread only during the service and made it available to pick up outside the church after the online service. In the other denomination participants bring their own bread and, in this denomination, juice, and partake during the service. The latter is much more meaningful and authentic to me.
My husband and I have discussed this questions many times and have wondered the same thing. We are Lutheran and during this time of only online services, we have served each other communion every Sunday during the service after the words of consecration are spoken by our Pastor. It has helped so much during this time to be connected with Christ and the community with those who worship with us.
I remember reading that (now that you've said it)! LOL .. I bought each of your books as soon as they were released. I need to read them all again. I hope is that someday, you'll be in my neck of the woods and I'll get the chance to come hear you in person.
Pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber, I am with Suzanne. I have followed your U-Tube posts. I listened to you from Australia. Listened to you when you were at our Youth meetings. Orating to the youth is what you do best. You have been there (where I have not been in my life) and you have never left you beliefs on the side of the road. You are a saint and a sinner every minute of your life. My favorite Bible verse in Romans 5 1 to 5. I love you, have read all your books. Just ordered one that I missed Saints and Sinners. I would like to invite you to my church, Lutheran church of the Palms in Palm Harbor FL. Have no clue to how many would come to hear you but I invited you. I will inform our council president that I have invited you. I do not really expect you to come to a small church in Palm Harbor as you must be very busy with your own life and activities. I just want you to know that I would love to meet. I would probably be speechless. I think you are great. I am just a simple old lady who thinks you have so much right. I also know that there is wrong in your life too.
Just mentioned to my husband that I don’t wake with the angst and wander the day checking repeatedly for what bad news there is. So yes, more hopeful. But I also live where the crazy lies and theories thrive and it gets worse every day here. I refuse to be driven from my home and so have to look to the hope of tomorrow.
And white women. Courtney Martin just posted a great blog in which she interviews a high school senior (white) who has been studying the hidden (and not so hidden, as in Phyllis Schafly) work of white women in supporting white supremacy.
White Women have a lot of work to do. (I actually wrote about this on my own blog, Sin of a White Woman). Time to step into some Abolition Feminism (Angela Davis) and press upward, toward creating brilliant change with our Black and Indigenous sisters.
Nadia. I feel isolated too. Live alone. Took. Mental health day this week. It’s cold. It’s rainy. Want to read but all I seem to do is watch tv. But. You’re here. I have plenty of food. A warm home, my granny’s quilt. A grandson and another due in June. I’ll make soup this weekend. Carolina will play basketball. My parents are getting their second shot soon. I’m a mental health counselor and my practice is full. Thanks for giving me space to speak. Nadia you are a blessing to many.
Nadia, I don’t have a specific question, but just wanted to encourage you! Your candor in Sunday prayers has soothed my soul. In your isolation, may God give you the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness. He’s given us beauty for ashes through Christ and the oil of joy for mourning.
Just this morning I found yet another reason to be thankful. I'm an urgent care doc, somewhat stressed this past year. I decided to make a conscious effort to find good things in every day, because, you know, it's so easy to slide down the rabbit hole of negative thoughts. This morning I was headed in to see a pt with a very Arabic name, thinking he was going to be an entitled princeling getting an American education, then thinking "what is wrong with me, slipping right into those thoughts?". Well, yeah, what indeed. He is just a regular person, like the rest of us, who moved himself and his family to the US to search out opportunity. Whoa, JUST like the rest of us! He has a minor issue which he had been worrying about until it was huge in his mind. I was able to reassure him, he was very pleasant and thankful, and I was left with the reminder that we are all much more alike than different. Thanks, God!
Those little moments of repentance are what keep me believing in God - not the moments of piety and holiness, but when my heart of stone is replaced again with a heart of flesh.
A friend and I recently mused over which of our relationships will be sustained post-pandemic. This isolation, frustrating though it may be, has a kind of purity to it. Some relationships, using brutal honesty, are more defined by social transactions or pleasantly distracting "clutter" than by substance. So far there have been no big surprises about which friends fall along the continuum from Substantive to Superficial, but there is still some small resigned grief about the truth of it.
Just bumping into folks at the office and having a quick chat! When I am there now occasionally, I am completely alone. There are new staff folks that I have yet to meet except vis Zoom - grateful for the technology, but I really miss our in-person staff meetings!
Maybe I read this because of you but this poem was written have a national act of violence and I think of the simple acts and how I miss them. https://poets.org/poem/shaking-hands
That very thing is mentioned in that new book, Burnout: Completing the Stress Cycle, i.e., those simple, pleasant interactions and how they really do help us to feel okay. I'm with you in missing those. Remember when Starbucks offered no-contact pickup in the before-times? And it turned out that people preferred to stand in lines to get their coffee from human beings with a little pleasant interaction? *sigh*
The value of those true friendships has indeed become clearer, but I do love the sparks of real contact that occur in the course of our pre-Covid daily lives.
Nadia, a small group of us started a book club last summer. Our first book was “Accidental Saints”. We’ve read and discussed several of your books as well as some from other progressive Christian female authors. We refer to ourselves as “The Accidental Saints” - and it is certainly apropos. I guess I just wanted to take this opportunity to let you know that your honesty, courage, humor, humanity, and faith have helped me begin to resolve decades of distance and angst from my relationship with God and any sort of spiritual/religious community. When you’re having a hard day, I hope you can remember and realize the impact you have had and continue to have on others. With profound gratitude, Lisa.
Nadia, want you to know that you have provoked both laughter and tears in this rabbi. I am sharing your Sunday posts with my beloved gathering, hoping to open up more possibilities for authentic prayer and relationship with Divinity beyond the sacred texts.
Nadia, I am a 73 year old white woman, raised in a pentecostal, church but changed to ELCA Lutheran. Discovering your books and your ministry has been soothing to my soul. Thank you. Bless you. Beth L.
Just spent 20 minutes reading and skimming these messages and I do feel more connected to the Children of God. Love this. Thanks, Nadia and thank you all.
Nadia, I always have questions but today I just want to thank you from all that is within me for being you, for putting this page together for all of us, for giving me and so many people a safe space to say we're not in agreement with certain doctrines or sometimes I'm not sure at all what I believe anymore (more often than not). It has helped me get through the toughest times of standing up for what I DO believe and won't stand behind anymore. Reading your books is so freeing and this is like reading/listening to you in person as much as possible. I live in a highly conservative place where everything revolves around church and Jesus and... and it becomes so oppressive and overwhelming -especially for an LBGT person who has been kicked out of the church multiple times. (NOT why I left the church, BTW - more about doctrine and my own clashing of beliefs). But thank you. Thank you for encouraging people to think and to love and to be who we are as followers of jesus - not cookie cutters. You rock. Keep hanging in there. I know you've lost a lot of your speaking engagements and so on during this time. Can't imagine how hard that has been for a whole year so unexpectedly. Thanks for being there for others even when you have your own "stuff" going on. So much admiration and gratefulness for you!
Sitting with anxiety, pain, anger, and asking for grace NOT to act out on them and just let it pass is my challenge at present. For me right now, moving forward actually means waiting in many situations and, damn, it’s hard.
For me as well. A hurry up and wait series of medical appointments and decisions. I’m glad you brought this up because I hadn’t thought of waiting as moving forward before.
Nadia -- just wanted you to know that I'm applying to a school of theology and in my letter of introduction (or "personal essay") I plan to use you as my example of a "theologian who influenced you."
Nadia, I grew up in the Church of Christ in Alabama, meandered around a bit, then landed in a Lutheran Church. Everything you say resonates with me. I still carry shame, grief, and a lot of disappointment with myself that I think is connected to Church of Christ theology. Thank you for helping me work through that.
I was in Denver for an International leather Crafters convention about 6 years ago I noticed where is your church was located in relation to where I was in a hotel downtown. How I wished I would have had the time to come to church on Sunday morning but I had to catch Amtrak and had other people relying on me to get them to the station. I've been following you since and should sign up...
I've known folks similar to you in your former life in my former life as a fairly "clean" alternative living person running a Head Shoppe. ..I am now an ELCA member (...after having been raised in an LCMS parsonage)
So my admiration for you is one of semi- camaraderie. May the Lord bless you real good!! and if I don't see you in this life...I'll see you in Heaven!!!✌&❤! Wayne
Thank you for the podcast. It is my favorite go to on my phone when taking a walk in my neighborhood. I know the neighborhood, so I don't have to pay as much attention to my surroundings, I andcan think more about what is being said.
Listening to your podcasts on my walks, has made me less judgmental, and focusing more on grace. Grace is hard to give AND especially to receive. Trying to keep grace top of mind has kept me just a little more sane during these strange months of COVID. (Just don't ask my family and friends if that's true.)
Nadia, I'm so happy to hear that! Please know what a source of comfort and strength you are during these hard times, especially because you share your doubts, fears, and vulnerability. I found you via your interview on Armchair Expert and was hooked immediately.
Nadia, the flame of my faith is sputtering. Do you have any suggestions to fan the flames? I don't necessarily need a bonfire right now. Just a nice, warm firepit will do. Thank you.
RoseAnn, do not despair. Maybe it's just not your turn to have a strong faith right now. Borrow someone else's for awhile until it is you who has enough for someone else to borrow.
One of the things I've built into my routine is to go through my day as I'm saying my prayers at night and list out everything I'm thankful, no matter how small. Some days my list is longer than others and some days I'm repeating the same things I've said a million times. But it reminds me that there is good in this world and helps ground and strengthen my faith for another day.
This takes me back to a book by theologian Paul Tillich I read in college. He said, "The essence of faith is doubt." That has stuck with me for over 40 years. It is not real faith if you have certainty.
Greg Boyd’s book “The Benefit of the Doubt” is excellent. He talks about how a lot of Christians idolize certainty, which leads to a house-of-cards model of faith that comes tumbling down if you question anything (i.e. pull out one card). He discusses his own model of faith which he describes as a series of concentric circles, with the center circle in the core being his belief that Jesus is the closest thing we know to the true nature and character of God...a terrible paraphrasing of what I read a few years back. As a result, his entire faith doesn’t crumble if he questions and changes his mind about different things, like the virgin birth, for example, as long as his core belief is there.
I'm obviously not Nadia, but I've been in this place many times. A simple thing I do when I feel far away from God, or feel like God is ignoring me or doesn't care, is count the "coincidences" in my life, no matter what size. Small coincidences like being late for work but having the subway arrive 3 minutes earlier than usual, thus getting me there right on time. Large coincidences (which I only ever recognize in hindsight) like how I got turned down for a flight attendant job I felt in my core I was supposed to have back in November of 2019 and instead took a tech job I felt unqualified for and unmotivated by, only to be VERY grateful to have job security and safety a few months later when a global pandemic befell our world. Idk.... it just helps me see that maybe - just maybe - there's something bigger at play. And usually my faith picks up momentum from there.
Yes!! This has happened in my life many times. And recently, I prayed and prayed for my son to get a new job that he desperately needed. He applied for several that he was well-qualified for and was even a finalist, but he did not get them. And I just felt so frustrated for him and frustrated that my prayers were not answered. Then he applied for another job that fit perfectly with his talents, experience, and interests. He was hired quickly, and with a better salary and benefits than the jobs he was turned down for. Clearly this was the job he was meant to have. And I gave thanks to God. And my faith did indeed pick up momentum.
When you are if the age, 67 and you realize life has flown by what steps go you take to live in the now but figure out what you want to be doing for the rest of the years ahead
I've done this exercise and found it useful: Imagine your birthday party 20-30 years in the future, and three people that you love, who are most important to you, (living or dead - this is your imagination), get up to speak about what your life has meant to them and to your community. What would you most want them to say? Listen to the words, and let that inform you about what matters most to you. Then think of the action steps you can take to live out those values.
Another one: Think about the moments of sweetness and joy you've experienced in the past - what were you doing and who were you with? How can you bring more of that to your life?
I am in the same boat as well. I am finding joy in working with small organizations that need all kinds of help. And my small weekly group that is exploring how we “learn how to see” (a great podcast) is life giving.
I am in the same boat. Hoping that this pandemic will offer clarity but still waiting. Right now I just want to see family ad friends and do lots of hugging..is that a life goal :)
Nadia, we lost our adult son to a drug overdose two years ago and have a friend in our church who recently went through the same thing. We are having a hard time with the guilt of course, but also struggled with the Christian invitation to always love and be there for the person struggling, as contrasted to the advice to set boundaries, and put our own wellbeing first. Our son had three children and a wonderful wife and we felt we needed to put the physical and emotional wellbeing of the children before our son's. Life is complicated!
❤️ Hugs and I’m sorry. My mother’s boundaries saved my life but I know she would have blamed herself if it hadn’t. Addiction is a viscous disease and you did your best to love him. I’m so sorry.
Diane, my son didn’t make it either, three years ago this month. You are not the only one, for whatever that’s worth. Sending you the same love I am showing me.
When I feel powerless, depressed, or isolated I have learned to do something for someone less fortunate than I. Doing so always helps me maintain perspective. About 24 years ago, I left my beautiful home and very successful husband (to whom I am still married) and traveled alone to a remote village in Africa. I lived without electricity, running water, a phone signal or internet, staying with a woman who ran a makeshift orphanage in her house. Chickens, spiders, and snakes wandered throughout the house. After one week, I was ready to give up and go home, but something told me, "Wait!" Within 2 months, my heart belonged to Ghana, and I ended up staying 5 years. Needless to say, I no longer felt powerless, depressed or isolated.
For the past 14 years, I have lived in the mountains in the Dominican Republic. I teach (again, as a volunteer) in 14 isolated villages in the mountains - areas where the only transportation is a burro, water flows intermittently or not at all, and electricity is off as much as it is on. People are poor. Poor. One of our 130 students is a paraplegic boy who writes using his mouth to hold the pencil or crayon. We have children 10, 11, 12 years old who cannot read, do not know their alphabet or letter sounds. Parents are also illiterate. Here, there is no time to feel so self centered when I am with others who have so little and yet also feel so blessed.
The best medicine ( in my opinion) for self-indulgence is sacrifice. That is what has worked for me.
Not everyone can leave home, go somewhere else in the world and volunteer. But everyone can do something to make the world better or to bless others. Feed the hungry. Visit the sick or elderly or mentally ill. Help a friend. Shovel snow. Carry out the groceries. Tutor a child. Or just smile- even when we don't feel like doing so. Most of all, wake up each morning and say, "Today is going to be a great day! I am going to pass on my blessings." Not every day is equally great. But always, I work to find my blessings and pass on blessings to others.
I was born and raised Roman Catholic and decided that I wanted to become a priest for soldiers as a Military Chaplain...The big hurdle has been that I am a woman. So, I am in a random Christian seminary and will be ordained by a group of rogue nuns who were ordained by a rogue Roman Catholic Bishop. Upon ordination, I can either take the Army faith code "Christian" or "Catholic, other." I have also considered demanding that they allow me to use the faith code "Roman Catholic," because there is a major shortage of RC priests in the military. Ultimately, similar to your calling, my heart is committed to serving and providing sacraments to ALL soldiers regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc...an inclusive community is extremely important to me. If you were in my shoes, which faith code would you pick?
I am not Nadia but may I just say as a fellow practicing Catholic woman you are my HERO - and you will be no matter what you pick. I hope my daughter grows up to see you and others change the church for the better.
So here's something I've been wondering. I am getting accustomed to, even comfortable with this rhythm and pattern of life where I am no longer taking spontaneous day trips, spur-of-the-moment outings to fabric stores or quirky bookstores. I am not able to effectively differentiate lethargy or laziness from acceptance and contentment. As the pandemic eases, I'm wondering if I have allowed hindrances of all sorts to build up that will inhibit a re-immersion into a common life, and what practices will function as oil of seized-up, rusty hinges. Will I revert to being a back pew, last one in, first one out church attender? How "stuck" will I be?
I wonder that, too. Will I really want to oil the rusty hinges or will it be easier to let them continue to rust so that I can follow the increasingly screen-mediated trajectory I've been on for the past year.
Hi, Nadia. David Fosselman, here. Thank-you for your work. I have been watching the footage again this week from the Capitol riot due to the impeachment trial. My question for you is this: how does the predominantly white church shown in the footage repent and make amends and to whom do we do it?
Do you REALLY still have hope for the future of the church in light of all we’ve seen this last few years? It’s hard not to wonder if it will just fade into obscurity or whether it will morph into something truly horrible.
church to me = Luther's definition: wherever the sacraments are rightly celebrated and the Gospel is rightly preached. To that end, yes I have hope for the future of the church because even if our buildings and colleges and endowments and camps and budgets are long gone I believe people will still gather in the name of the triune God, tell of the night Jesus was betrayed and the meal he shared with his faltering friends, hold up bread and wine, say it is his body and blood and that it is for forgiveness of sins and give it to each other, just as it has been done since that night so shall it be until the end. Those gatherings might be in homes or parking garages or parks, but it will be church.
My hope for the Church lies in its willingness to aggressively detach itself from its white supremacist roots and the ways in which that's all still intact today. That is, my hope is scant. But, my hope for the ongoing truth of Jesus and the Gospel are huge. New ways of being Church will emerge as the institutional church continues to drag its feet on addressing white supremacy (I'm coming from a mainline Protestant/Lutheran perspective).
I would love to hear more about your situation and John's below. I have seen pastoral leadership thrive and also get crushed. What do we need to do as a church to help you thrive? And, what is it that you find crushing that has made you lose hope? Peace to you both.
I can't speak for everyone but I can tell you from my perspective. This may sound overly dramatic (and I don't mean it to be - this is just the best way I can explain it and answer your question) but have you seen the HBO limited series on the Chernobyl disaster? There's a couple of scenes when workers pushed the limits of their exposure to help others resulting in their deaths from radiation poisoning.
As a pastor, you're subjected to a toxic world of people cutting you down and telling you all kinds of shit about how you're not "preaching the word" or bullshit like that. They're your biggest fan for a few years until some other church catches their eye and then they proceed to completely roast you mercilessly on their way out the door. Any time you try to move the church even a few degrees in a new direction you risk huge blowback that comes in form of people talking about you or even to your bottom line (since the church is a corporation that relies on the donations of it's constituents to do fulfill its mission).
In the middle of all that, there are people who genuinely want to emerge from their deconstruction and encounter the mystery and wonder of the Divine and those are the people you're trying to speak to and help.
But much like those workers at Chernobyl, you can only be exposed to the toxic environment for so long before you begin to suffer. I made it longer than many people do in ministry (and not as long as some). I just know that I need to walk away and detox before it's too late. I'm walking away from the church in full solidarity of people like Nadia and others like her, but I know that my time with that institution is done.
Disillusioned, I have seen the HBO series on the Chernobyl disaster! And, I think it's a good analogy. I have seen a bunch of toxic situations in the church. It's disheartening to say the least. My own disillusionment and dealing with a toxic situation was 25 years ago when I decided to "come out" to a few close friends at church. Peeing on the alter would have gone over easier. : ) But, I still felt God nudging me to be a part of the church. Not an easy thing when several of my friends at the time let me know what they thought about my "lifestyle". So, I held onto faith and moved to another church and denomination.
I actually went through a period of mourning as I left. The first Sunday visiting my new church the minister preached on why "everyone should be welcomed, including the LGBT community" at GCPC. I felt like he was preaching that sermon just for me. He didn't know me, but the Spirit knew what I needed to hear that day.
You and John may have a period of mourning, but I'm sure that will turn into a new type of morning. I know it may be tough after dealing with your own "Chernobyl" but continue to seek out God in your new life and let Spirit guide you in new ways. Even if it means becoming a designer! : ) (My career for the past 30 years)
May God bless you both in your new calling and my it be a place that you feel the presence of the Spirit in your lives.
That's a beautiful story MFechtling. Thanks for sharing that. I hope you continue to experience healing and welcome from those within the church and that you have the people to support and encourage you when you do not. Blessings.
My dad quit the preacher business when I was a kid it was like watching a balloon slowly deflate everything going out and nothing coming in i don't think he really ever recovered all the way.
Again, I am not Nadia. And, I agree with the one that said the white american evangelical church is beyond hope. And, it deserves to be. However, I do believe that the church is not a building; it's those of us that gather together and share our faith and our love with one another. I live in a small town and I have a church that when we aren't having a pandemic that I attend, but it does not feed my soul. It is too small minded for me. They are are in essence why I feel the church is doomed. They are not growing and changing or evolving as we see the sins of the church from the past. I have found this spot and claim it as my main way to be "fed" by the Lord. These little conversations replace some of what I lost when small group bible study quit having real meaning. My walk with the Lord has not suffered, but my walk with his people is changing. I think you may need to stop looking for an edifice, but look for where he needs you to be. Your cynicism makes you understand all of us who are dissatisfied with how the church is.
agree....church is the people not the building with a mortgage or rent...the monies that must be raised....so you have to be careful what you say or you won't be able to pay the bills. That becomes it's own business and then must be kept up.
Sorry, that question was for Nadia but forgot to tag her name in it (although I’d love to hear from anyone else as well, especially other disillusioned pastors like me)
I have a lot of hope for the Church as in the universal body of those who seek to hold on to the teachings of Jesus. I have no hope at all for the white american evangelical church. Those 2 things are not the same in my mind it at all, but living in the bible belt and small conservative community that took time to learn.
Hey man, I'm very much in the same boat as you... Was full-time pastor for 10 years and unfortunately needed to completely unplug from it to find any semblance of hope. I'm now 14 months out from full-time ministry and things are looking brighter (outside of the church). I know that's a pretty one-sided solution, but that's my story thus far. <3
Dang John, sounds like our stories are pretty similar! I didn't include this in my question above but I too am transitioning out of ministry after 18 years of full-time ministry and 10 years at the church I planted. I have one foot in both worlds as I finish up my pastoral transition in the coming weeks as I attempt to re-enter the corporate world (and assuming you're the same John Emery I Googled, you're even a creative designer like me).
I've done a lot of interior work these last four or five years so I feel pretty good about where I'm at in the process but I can honestly say I have no desire whatsoever to re-engage with the church. I'm not saying that as a bitter ex-pastor or anything. I have just given way too much of myself to that world only to see it morph into some kind of nationalized, radicalized, conspiracy-loving monster that I don't even recognize.
And yes, I know that there are lots of churches out there that are trying to engage with those on their deconstruction journeys and I wholeheartedly support their efforts. I just know that I don't have it in me anymore.
I'm looking forward to "things looking brighter" as you say on the other side of ministry.
WOW! Disillusioned Pastor and you are both looking or are working as graphic designers!? I've been an art director for 30 years, freelancing for the past 18 years. And, you both have been in full-time ministry. I feel for you both. I get that ministry is a tough gig. I hope in some way that you will continue with your ministry outside the church. I often donate my design services to my church or Presbytery to further our mission. Hopefully you both will find fulfillment in your new careers.
I left working in the church as a pastoral assistant and counsellor as I had hit the wall and was in deep burnout. 12 years down the track I am still wary and grateful I took the step. I've been working on community development with counselling and training since then and found my healing, to a large degree, in the privilege of holding sacred space for myself and others.
Spiritual burnout seems to be "acceptable" for those in ministry which makes me so sad.
I'm not out the other side totally but have found over time I have been able to attend church and have "church" in daily encounters with the community. It is there that I received love, acceptance, challenges and laughter most deeply.
For me, the online church has been deeply meaningful as I have been able to attend many deeply satisfying services with various interpretations of God.
I hope you have a good journey to finding yourself again,
I suppose the question is: How do you define church?
I don't know that I see it was ever meant to be an institution. I do think the mega church in particular needs to fall, it's far too much a business and glorifying wealth, the rich man who turned away when Jesus told him to sell all he had.
But the gatherings of 2,3 or more, right? Small buildings, homes, the coffee shop. But is it always going to be people who define themselves a "Christian?" - That word came after Jesus. Perhaps a morphing into a Christ Consciousness.
There IS a grass roots movement that's quite encouraging to see.
But there's a also a fight right now: mm, the old God v. the new, in a sense- the Old "ways" v. the new or renewed. Those who've benefitted from power are clinging like Gullam to the ring, while it's destroying them and Frodo is working to get that ring, back where it belongs for the sake of peace. :) #(r)Evolution right? Blessings.
My heart is telling me that after this pandemic others will show up in churches. Now there must be others out there who need a higher power to carry them through. I also believe there will be some weaker congregants who will blame god for this pandemic and not come back to churches. As I read my Bible there are thoughts that come into my head that perhaps God is angry with this world right now due to all the anger out there. Perhaps He has created a worldwide virus to wake us up. Then once done with my Bible and prayer time I come back to my senses and realize my loving God would not do this to his world.
Does anybody have any favorite recipes they've been making lately? I'm just about to get to enter back into cooking and baking after 8 weeks of no cooking post-shoulder surgery and I'm so excited I don't even know where to start.
Nadia, when are you going to write a book of daily devotionals and/or a Bible study guide? Your voice is needed to bring the Bible alive and give it daily relevance to those of us who otherwise do not have the same level of rosy-colored optimism and Shirley Temple outlook to the world around us. Just a suggestion.
The sun is a door of perception and mood enhancer in this year of the ox. I enjoy your posts though I’m not religious. So much to mourn yet also celebrate
I'm feeling so hurt by my church leaders. 8 years of serving, every spare moment I had went to serving the body. My kids grew up in that building. It's all they know. I loved it. Thing is, I thought I was on a team, that we were a family. And it became very clear to me this past year when I was hospitalized due to mental health reasons (my husband had stomach cancer, whole other story) that that's not the case. I feel so hurt, alone, used and jaded. How do you overcome hurts in the church? How do you not let it effect your faith? Even just listening to worship songs can be painful. Never mind being a woman leader in the church with mental health issues! It's a lot to navigate. Any advice?
I'm so sorry you're having a tough time. Personally, I try to remember that the church is made of humans... and we very frequently suck. And then I try and figure out what it looks like to continue in relationship (or if I can continue) with those humans. It's not always straight forward and it's ok to need a break from any human(s) to sort out what you need
I find cliché platitudes to be irritating and eye-roll worthy even in the best of times, but especially during the past year. I find it infuriating when people give them as responses (it feels dismissive and invalidating), and I also find it infuriating when they get almost offended that I don't reply to their anxieties with them. (My go-to response has been "You're right. Things are really shitty right now. I don't have answers." This seems to rub people the wrong way.)
Any thoughts on polite ways to tell people where to go and what to do with their "everything happens for a reason" and "God doesn't give us more than we can handle" fluffy placebos?
I managed well for a long time of the pandemic. Then I couldn’t. Too many losses and winter has created a question of whether it’s grief or depression. I find it difficult to find energy or motivation to do much. I know if I could hug my friends and warm sunny days would sure help. But it’s gray and cold in central USA.
Nadia, I was wondering if you could say a prayer for my dear friend Karen. Two days ago she had a stroke in her eye and she lost most of her vision in that eye. She got treatment very quickly and is doing well under the circumstances. I’m just asking for prayers that her vision will be restored. She is my partner in crime. I love her so much. Thank you.
This weekend we celebrate the transfiguration of Jesus. I struggle to wrap my head around the biblical version but I do know that I have been transformed on many, many occasions. I am sixty after all. But in contrast to the somewhat solitary event ( with Peter, James, and John) transfiguration that is described in Matthew, I find my moments practically ALWAYS happen with community and connection and action- that is in doing something for someone else. Am I misconstruing what transfiguration really means and is it even appropriate to identify the biblical event with my own life experiences? Open to all to even share what moments you all may have had that mark a significant transformation in your life.
I’m what I’m still calling a “shiny new Christian” and this is my first Lenten season with Jesus in my heart. So, wow, it seems a little overwhelming, especially without being able to go to church (not that I have one yet). I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts on Lent. Thanks for taking the time to respond and for being a part of this amazing community.
I remember a wonderful Lenten sermon preached in my Episcopal church years ago. This wise priest, closer to retirement than ordination, framed the practice of giving something up for Lent not as a self-punitive act of repentance, but as a way of creating spiritual space. She described at one point tackling the daunting project of clearing her garage of old, no longer useful, things. Buried in the clutter she discovered some breath-taking reminders of who she truly is and how she is seen by God. From the pulpit she read from a long-forgotten report card from elementary school, in which the teacher described her (to the best of my memory) as a child who brought her graciousness, light, inquisitive spirit, thirst for knowledge and kindness to the classroom each day. Wow. Each year I now use Lent as a time to reinvigorate the never-ending practice of loosening my attachments to whatever emotional, physical or spiritual clutter sabotages my ability to dwell in the knowledge that I am deeply loved by God. Inhabiting this truth, and remembering that every "other" I encounter is similarly loved by God, is the prerequisite for discerning what is mine to do in the world.
I love that. Thank you so much for sharing. I also need to work on reminding myself how I am seen by God. Viewing Lent as a time to reinvigorate my focus is very helpful.
I like to think of my Lenten practices as mimicking the death and resurrection of Jesus - Jesus's death was necessary for him to resurrect, and create space for new life. What in my life needs to die to create space for new life? So for me that often looks like adding something rather than strictly giving something up, but I also have to recognize that due to my propensity for busy-ness, something usually has to "die" to create space for something new. My go-to is to write notes to people who have made a difference in my life, to thank them. I'm a firm believer that we don't tell people how we feel about them often enough or freely enough. For me, taking the time to write a note each day necessitates less time on social media, so I view that as the thing that has to "die" to create space for something new
A meaningful practice for me in Lent is taking on a spiritual discipline, suggested by our pastor a number of years ago. I have added: doing a gratitude list every night, keeping a prayer journal, a Lenten specific devotional, and attending weekly midweek Lenten services. I would encourage you to find an online church for now (maybe ask some local friends) that will allow you to explore and learn virtually. You would be very welcome at our church, not sure the guidelines re “promoting” so I will leave it at that for today.
Lent means different things to different people. I'm a recovering Baptist; they don't really DO Lent. I'm Lutheran now, but I still don't give anything up. It may not seem helpful, but you really have to find what Lent means to you. It's a time for reflection, and giving something up (as people often do) can help, but it's not necessarily vital.
My only really Lent experience is from my vaguely Catholic childhood when I always gave up candy. I thought it was to make my Easter candy taste better. 🙂 I’m not sure giving something up is my goal this year but more reflection, and understanding, so that’s helpful. I need to remember that Christianity is a different path for everyone in it. So, your comment was quite helpful. Thanks.
One Lent season long ago a group of us discussed giving up something for Lent and supporting each other during Lent. Each of us decided on different things to give up. We checked on each other daily. I gave up coffee that year (what was I thinking). This idea may sound weird but it was fun and all of us stuck to our commitment the entire time.
Do you think God is active in details of our lives?
I’ve often heard people talk about God having a mplan’ for where we live, who we meet and so on. But I’m not sure - maybe God trusts us to make our own decisions. Do we think praying asking God for a job /house / spouse a waste of time?
My hubby and I have a similar discussion all the time. He believes God doesn't care about the details. I do not know if He cares or not but I will continue to pray like He does and thank Him for the small details just in case.
This is a head scratcher for me as well. I know this kind of thinking comforts people and frames their lives, no matter what occurs. It seems a bit far fetched to me. I believe God will guide me and put people in place for the purpose of creating a new heart within me, but not sure where he is in all the details, nor can he force me to rise to the challenge of change. As far as the details, I don’t think he had much to do with the trifecta of my refrigerator, washer and dryer going at the same time. LOL.
I also don't believe that God had anything to do with that awful trifecta. I think that what God does and does not intervene in is a mystery, one that I am willing to live with - so many mysteries abound. But at the the same time, I do believe God is intimately interested in, and involved in, how we react to anything. I recently tripped and fell on a sidewalk, split my lip, busted my knee. Some would say that was part of God's plan. I say my reaction to it, and how I subsequently dealt with it (it's now a funny story: a construction worker, when he saw me fall, yelled "Senior citizen down! Senior citizen down!" I didn't know who he was talking about.) were informed by God both in there moment and in accumulation of trust.
I've kind of always felt that God works in algorithms. Such as, I grew up in Pittsburgh, but then moved to Erie. I believe, had I stayed in Pittsburgh, I would have found my people. When I relocated, God switched up the original plan and led me to my people here. Does that make sense? Others would say that God always knew that I would relocate, but I'm not so sure. We have free will to move around, and we've certainly seen people make disastrous moves. God moves with us, but we're not just pawns on a chess board. In that sense, my prayers are for God to be with me where I am. I certainly ask for discernment and guidance, but I also recognize that a large part of decision-making is left to me.
Yes I do feel God is lovingly active in the details of our live while respecting our free will. We notice them more the more we pay attention to God and sometimes we need to just move ahead ourselves in prayer and supplication....
I believe that God has a plan for us, but also that we have free will. There are times in my life where things just seem to fall into place. And when I look back on all the things I've been through - good and bad - sometimes it feels like it is so clear how they have all led me to where I am in my life at this moment. But I also know that praying doesn't mean things happen over night, you have to be willing to put in the work and also be willing to keep your mind and heart open to the direction he is calling you in.
Good question. I think God creates us with unlimited potential for good (in experiences and in ourselves) and it's up to us to get out of the way. In those situations, I usually pray for help to see the solution that's already there/been provided. So, not a waste of time at all.
I had to put my 20 year old cat down. I am afraid I did the wrong thing, however, I just did not want him to go through the trauma of a terrible procedure. I could not afford to do the blood work, shots to get him under anethesia. He has only been to the vet twice and he could have a heart attack and I wanted him to quit while he was ahead. Might have been one of the most selfless things I have done.
I am not one to have them hang in there until the bitter end.
Kind of makes me think Euthenasia and whether or not it is ethical? What do you think?
20 is a ripe old age. It's never easy and as a caring human, you always wonder if you did the right thing.
My husband and I have taken to rescuing older cats when something happens to their human, and as such, we have had to deal with this question more often than most people. (5 in 10 years)
I don't really know whether it's ethical or not, but I do believe that decisions made out of love are the best we can do.
And, as to whether cats go to heaven? I hope so, but I suspect they are still here with us, making sure we behave.
Here is my question for you Nadia. How do you try to practice being in the presence of Christ all day long? I’m great at it in my morning quiet time and then... real life begins and once the quiet is gone my mind and emotions are off to the races!
I don’t know Nadia. I hear your answer but I’ve read the mystic poets Rumi and Hafez and they are in this incredible relationship with divine love; there is a fire that doesn’t go out. I read the letters of Brother Lawrence and I think it’s possible to be in loves presence and I just don’t know how to get there. I want that equanimity of spirit that is able to be at peace even when circumstances deem otherwise. I want to believe it is possible for more than 10 minutes a day. That just doesn’t seem like the abundant life Jesus claimed he came to give. I was hoping that you thought it was possible too and that that is why you followed your heart Into the ministry.
I'm not a mystic. Or an example of constant faith for others to follow. I am just someone who is in need of grace and tries to point to The One form whom grace flows.
I guess I'm kind of cynical. It seems like many of the mystics who wrote about being in the constant presence of God had their daily needs taken care of by others. The rest of us have to pay bills, clean house, cook meals, go grocery shopping, do laundry, etc. Those everyday tasks and challenges tend to distract me from being focused on God 24/7. In the depth of my soul, there is a Knowing that I am one with the Beloved, but there is a human duality that divides my mind.
Other mystics did nothing BUT chores and daily tasks ..all seeking to do so in the presence of God. I'm thinking more of monastics than mystics here maybe :) point is they brought their human duality to God this way
Checking in with my body .. whether a quick little yoga video in the afternoon or just a walk and some deep breaths...helps me be more present to myself and make space for spirit/christ work in me (another way of thinking if it is letting my clutch on my other stressors, plans, to-dos, and fears drop for a second). I read somewhere this year (maybe a richard rohr email?) that Christ was the human who always remembered how to be himself. Or never forgot himself. Something like that. That floored me.
I'm wondering if anyone else is watching or has watched the show, ALONE? Normally this kind of thing has no appeal to me, but I AM OBSESSED. They send 10 people out to remote areas with video cameras (they do all the filming themselves) and 10 tools of their choosing and a sat phone (for medical emergencies or to "tap out" and go home) and then they try and survive through finding food, making fire, building shelter etc... So these folks are truly alone for sometimes months. What I find fascinating is: 1. the ingenuity some of these folks show. Like, in season 3 this amazing woman built a quite beautiful living space for herself, and at once point, make a sauna and a stringed instrument. OUT OF NATURE! 2. The mindset and attitudes that fare well or do not fare well in that situation. 3. How often their thoughts turn to regrets and how important their families are. Anyhow - of anyone else watches I would love to know what you think. It originally aired on the History channel but is now streaming on HULU
The other thing I love is seeing how they cope with isolation. Because... obviously.
In this isolation,specially in the first three months,I turned into creating in my home. Decluttering,donating clothes,ect. Concentrated in fine tuning my abilities to cook. Been reading a lot ( specially your last two books) Opening up to new musical genres(jazz,dub reggae) Bible studies. Churning small readings to my church's Whatsapp group since we were limited to go to services. I have been thru turmoil since 2019 with my divorce,I had to reinvent myself. So far in 2020 things have been turning around. Loneliness has turned into my ally to discover myself.
I would just like isolation at home for maybe 4 days. I've been married for 28 years, have 4 kids, 2 of the adult children live with us. Even when I think I may get just 1 night alone someone has a night off work or something happens. With my husband now working from home, I'm going a little crazy. If it wasn't for a pandemic & winter, I'd escape for a just me trip. I know I would start by indulging with food, desserts, alcohol and romance movies... All the things I don't do with a household of men coming in and out.
Yes, sometime there is just too much testosterone in the house. I suggest carving out a place in your house or in the yard, that is just for you. Even if it is just a corner of a room! Let everyone know when you are there, you are not to be disturbed. Strong boundaries necessary! Perhaps you can take a day trip to someplace peaceful. I firmly believe in self care...it is a holy practice and a spiritual discipline.
Oh my gosh, right?! We have three of our six adult children living with us, as well as a niece and her seven and eight year olds AND a 20 year old great nephew! I had one hour alone in the house sometime a few months ago and it was just way too short. Along with all those people who live here we have their friends coming over everyday. I love and enjoy each and every one of them, but I feel like I'm living in a frat house! There is someone awake in this house almost 24 hours/day. I would be happy with one day to myself!!
Ha ha! The grass is always greener... We started married life in a shared house, then had 4 kids. Lived in a run down areabut great neighbours, community spirit, church just round the corner. Never a day went by without someone popping in for a cuppa or inviting me in. Then we moved to another part of the country where people are suspicious of strangers, I barely even SEE the neighbours, we go to a church a bus ride away, no one lives near us, I have no job now and the children are grown and moved out. My husband loves it being just us, but not a day goes by without me wishing for those times. And now, with covid....
Go on a trip anyway! I have to do this at least every 3 months. I rent an AirBNB for like $50 or $100 a night and I go away for a weekend. Usually it's somewhere like a cabin where I can hike. I love the nature/quiet. I read/write and listen to music and go for a run and usually it's somewhere that has animals like a horse or goat farm and I pet all the animals and find some peace. I have an 8 year old stepson and a 44 year old husband (who acts like an overgrown 13 year old) and I love them to pieces but sometimes the two of them can be a little much and I have to get away. it's really good for my mental health, and my husband completely understands that this is self care and he encourages me to go.
I'm not one to talk about being alone, we just had our 36th anniversary. Perhaps being alone is only bad when you know how good it is to NOT be alone with people you care about and care about you. But as a species our brains evolved in ways that our thinking revolves around living in a small group of people, so I suppose that the craving is always there, but some people have smaller social networks that others for whatever reason.
A movie. (AND BOOK) INTO THE WILD. Curious and fascinated by the human spirit and motivation as responding to the stresses of survival.
Seems to me that learning to be comfortable in solitude is a skill. A lot of ‘busyness’ that gets used for distraction rather than purpose.
I'm always curious about those shows; we used to watch the Bear Grylls show where they drop him in remote places. It always featured him eating a bug or a snail or something. Except there was a camera crew there with him...
One of the best gifts I got for Christmas was from one of my mom's friends; it was a survival book, and featured tanning hides and stuff like that. You need to use deer brains for that. Some of those survival skills are things one might want to learn to do, and then not do those things.
The deer brains remind me of the Foxfire series of books & how creative/ingenious/resourceful people can be. (Thinking I might try something from them while Ohio is coooold)
I don't have the book anymore; I think I remember getting an impression that the writer was Mormon...they get into the pioneer stuff. I wonder if I could find that book...1974 vintage.
I used to have several of the Foxfire books, including the one on building rustic banjos...
Still updated, 2021 edition available.
Brigham University Press is a clue here.
I love the internet. This is it; the first result from googling "survival skills book from 1974":
https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Survival-Skills-printing-1974/dp/B019WZ1PSO
Do NOT pay over $25 for it though.
Foxfire books all over ebay, vintage ones too: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055359.m570.l1313&_nkw=foxfire&_sacat=267
Reminds me of a book of the Sixties, 'Black Like Me', by John Howard Griffin. If you're not familiar with it, see the Wikipedia article.
I read that book back in the late 60s/early 70s and was fascinated. Now I find myself questioning: why did it take a white person pretending to be Black for us to believe the experience of Black people? Did we not believe the testimony of Blacks themselves?
I have never heard anyone else mention that book. I randomly found it when I was a teenager (30 odd years ago). I think it really planted the seeds for my anti-racism attitudes because it certainly didn't come from my family or my all white upbringing. I recently reread it and this copy had an afterward and it was so good.
Unless there is another book with the same title, I read this one my freshman year at the University of Georgia in 1991. My US history professor assigned the book. I still have my copy - the book had such an impact on me.
My goodness I read that when I was only 8-10 in the 1960s because my grandma owned it and it fascinated me as naive white kid. You make me want to find it again and see how I think of it at 60-something in my world today.
You won't regret the reread
Griffin was admired by Thomas Merton, they were friends or as much as you can be when one of you is a Trappist monk.
That was an eye opening book for my adolescent self.
That was my favorite episode because she was at peace. Creative. And creating comfort. Her mind was as beautiful and strong as her body. Her words were peaceful and content. I wanted her to be out there the longest not to win, but just to enjoy herself. I'm glad you brought this up because in the dead of Wisconsin winter right now, it's a good reminder to find peace in the quiet.
I seldom think "I want to be more like____" but yeah, I'd love to be more like her. She was legit.
Okay, I had a feeling you might be my soulmate, now I know for sure!! That show is so so good!!! I was obsessed with it at the beginning of the pandemic- not my typical show. But I felt that there were so many good teachings. I actually felt HP lead me to that show and said, “learn about how to survive alone.” Shortly after my beloved was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer (we have two young children). Now, I’m not saying that show is saving my life or anything, but it damn sure gave me inspiration and showed me what true bravery, ingenuity, trust etc. looks like.
Damn, I can’t believe you mentioned this show. For sure my soulmate 🥰
Same - not a usual pick for me, but 12 yr old wanted to watch together. I've only seen the season in the Arctic - and holy smokes. It's jaw dropping what people (a) CAN do and (b) WANT to do (said someone who gets grumpy when it's too cold for flip flops (e.g. below 60).
yeah. I experience any form of physical discomfort as a crisis.
people literally avoid me if they see me in closed toed shoes. hah!
This is So me!! I tell everyone I live my life with safety bumpers!!
If I need bug repellent (any kind of flying or creeping bug) I Am Out.
I have watched every one twice and I cant figure out how they are not all having panic attacks. Do they all have secret stashed of valium? I mean- well-adjusted people. That being said, I am fascinated by the guy who was storing food and not eating to the point where he had to be removed for medical reasons. I found this a metaphor for how we offer compassion for others but not ourselves. I found this a metaphor for many things. I have all of this but I am afraid if I use it I might run out. It has also been really wild watching it while isolated in a pandemic. Thankful for the perspective it gives me. Wow- I have running water!
I know - it has to be a mataphor for us all! what am I holding while starving?
DAVE! He's my favorite. And then when he's back in season 5, he has an intense emotional reaction to killing...I'm so moved by the fact that most contestants thank the animals they kill for food. They aren't just thankful FOR the food, but thankful TO their food. It's just heart-wrenching to watch them move beyond gratitude to despair.
On a lighter note, ALONE is the way I bond with my father-in-law. Football? Forget it. A mandolin made out of nature? Pull up a chair.
Maybe being connected to nature and having sort of a very concrete mission helps thwart off panic attacks :)
I think you are probably correct. And then there’s me. I could not be a contestant on Alone. Not even for a million bucks.
😂 way to know your boundaries!!! 💪
Reminds me of Chris McCandless. He's the guy that gave up his family's life of massive wealth and lived like a gypsy for a while seeking an independent life of solitude and zero attachments to people or things. He ended up in the Alaskan wilderness alone where he realized that humans are meant for relationship with other humans. In his last few days of life (they think he accidentally ate a poisonous plant), he wrote in his diary that "Happiness is only real when shared."
yes, isolation has taught me the importance of relationships.
I haven't watched it yet, but (sort of) related, did you see the news story about the Cubans who survived on a remote island in the Bahamas after their boat sank? They ate coconuts and rats for a month. That's some serious survival.
One of the questions in today's New York Times News Quiz.
Oh yeah, so I saw that headline last night and thought “best wait to read the details until the daylight!” And true that, a serious survival framework-
Always looking for suggestions. Thanks. Watched Life Below Zero the Next Generation the other night. That’s how bored I was...it is interesting though.
My wife and I discovered this awhile back and watched the whole series and loved it. So many interesting things to learn - wilderness skills, how they cope with the isolation. We also loved a series on Netflix about a group of couples who are learning different survival skills to see if they and their relationship are strong enough to take over a homestead in remote Alaska from an elderly couple.
My husband and son have watched a lot of it. They loved it! I don't have anything smart to add because that kind of show stresses me out. I think they found it pretty good for family viewing, though, if others are interested.
My favorite show! I was obsessed. I think there was another season on Netflix I think.That gorgeous space she built and the instrument were fabulous. The Arctic season was my favorite because of the harshness of the environment. It’s always fascinating to me how some of the men literally build the tiniest little simple shelters but the women build these beautiful spaces.I have two recommendations if you loved Alone. I believe it’s called The Worlds Toughest Race. It blew my mind. It was extreme team racing in the harshest and harrowing circumstances imaginable. It was edge of your seat jaw dropping. Also have you seen the You Tube videos of the women who use machetes and hack out the jungle to create these magical houses made with mud. Some even had mini swimming pools.They are astounding. I’ll get more info for you . ❤️
My husband was obsessed and asked me to watch some with him. I thought I would last an episode but now I’ve watched six seasons! I’m fascinated by the contrast of attitudes. I too love the lady who made a chair as the very first thing she did so she could sit and appreciate her new home, and absolutely thrived by ‘becoming one’ with the environment. Versus Larry who was angry at everything, took joy in killing the annoying mice yet manage to last almost to the end with a “white knuckling it” kind of vibe. A good metaphor for life and noticing who I would prefer to be.
I have not seen it, but will go watch it now. I've been obsessed with this concept. And for that reason, I'm so looking forward to Robin Wright's film, "Land." Though I'm an extrovert, I've loved this year of solitude. Of not having to keep saying NO to things I don't want to do. #thepandemic. I've loved being with me and doing what I want to do right at home.
I LOVE Alone! I've been watching it off and on lately. I'm not sure if you've gotten to Season 5 yet (that's where I am) but it's called "Redemption" and they bring back contestants from past seasons that had to tap out for one reason or another. It's been fun to see familiar faces and learn about Mongolia, where the season takes place.
Can't wait to watch this one!
Hi Nadia,
I hope you remember meeting me because I sure remember meeting you. Dear Pastor Nadia, You may never see this message though I hope you do. You are an influential person in my answering and embracing my calling to ministry. I heard you speak in Atlanta and asked you a question about my calling, and what you said inspired me, and I will never forget it. After her talk and sermon, she took questions from the audience, and I was honored to ask her, “What advice would she give me a queer multi-racial person who has been hurt by religion yet is called to ministry”? I will never forget what she said. You just looked me in the eyes and said, “Bless you, my friend,” and continued to talk about the love, bravery, and witness that I expressed in asking such a question. This moment was the first time I had my calling affirmed in a public space, and it helped me see that I was indeed on the right path. I just wanted to let you know that I was accepted into seminary and start this Fall! Keep being your awesome badass self, and thank you for believing in me.
aw. thanks for sharing that. keep going!
Love this.
“This is the day the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it.” I have been home for one month since spending ten days in the hospital being treated for pneumonia and testing positive for the virus. I need to have a procedure repeated and see my lung specialist. Wife received her first vaccination and is due for the second comes March. I get my first comes the end of March.
Many blessings on your continued healing
Thanks!
So thankful you are better!
Thanks! Do appreciate it!
Continue to grow strong
I shall. Thanks!
Let's talk about what makes us laugh...I'll start...yes, i still laugh when the ketchup bottle farts. I can't help it - I giggle. ok - your turn!
My boyfriend's middle school boy humor. I'd be so ashamed for anyone to know what I laugh at!
LOVE IT! Some things are best unspoken, right? But they run through our heads and we laugh!
My granddaughters laughing at me when I share what my dogs and I have been doing. I love farting Ketchup bottles. Also videos of my grand dog at doggy day card playing with his dog friends
I have four boys, two of which are in middle school right now. I laugh so hard at their jokes I am afraid I am ruining them!
That cat lawyer video! I have been laughing for days just thinking about it! “I am not a cat.” :)
This is the single best thing to happen to me in 2021 and just about makes up for everything that's been terrible!
Text autocorrects, especially ones that end up sexually explicit!
I once texted my bishop: "call me when you have a sex"
I have done that some sort of thing so many times. After this scenario is all over I do have to laugh at myself. Is that putting your foot in your mouth?
That’s fantastic! 🤪😂😂
🤣🤣🤣
Did they reply???
Like when “list” corrects to “lust”! Happens to me all the time!
Or when you mistakenly send a chat message to the wrong person because you don’t realize their name is highlighted. I once sent an “emoji sexting guide” to a (psychotherapy) client, thinking I was sending it to my husband. 🤪
Live from snacktime on Instagram - it's comments overheard from kids in the preschool/kindergarten age group.
so true! a niece will post things her four year old son has said and I find such humor and truth mixed in there - the latest "I'm going to find my HAPPY place because THIS is NOT it!" as he marched away......
My favorite one of late... " I want to put some pickles on my eyes and just relax." - Shannon, 4 years old.
i love Live at Snack Time...so funny. i work in a preschool and i hear some doozies...the stuff kids come out with... On friday a little girl was sitting beside me drawing and she stopped and stuck out her tongue and sort of poked it with her finger a few times. and she said "Oh..Claire Bear! I have a real life tongue!!! Its a real life one!!! she was very surprised. :)
WYN- This is so funny. I didn’t know about these and now I do and my life is a little but better.
I'll go look this up.
its a great one to follow they are all so funny.
Absolutely!
When I'm a bit blue I pull up You-Tubes of babies laughing. Gets me going every time.
This video makes me laugh! Definitely worth watching if you need a laugh!
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/mkhalak_websitedesign-webdesigner-uiuxdesign-ugcPost-6765402690030841856-o3cd
Made my day!
I laugh when I see members of my derby league just being their goofy selves at times. I miss stinky sweaty hugs said no one until now.....
I play derby too! massachusetts.
How fantastic!! 💚🖤🍄#59forever
Whats a derby league
Flat track roller derby, very much UNLIKE what would have been on tv or in Whip It. I’m “oh gnome u don’t”, the head non skating official for the Ohio Roller Derby, a Women’s Flat Track Derby Association member.
Go donna..... not to show my age but I had a secret saturday afternoon crush on Joanie Weston (of THE San Francisco Bay area bombers
Online videos of watching other people laugh always get me going. What I can't stand are the Funniest Home Video types that show people falling after doing something dangerous. My husband has a traumatic brain injury (severe) and it pains me to see people putting themselves into danger, and then having other people laugh at their near-disastrous results.
I used to enjoy those but I don't know what changed for me, I can't watch that kind of video anymore. Maybe I'm too empathetic. Particularly falls bother me.
Ditto
All the silliness over the ugly Target dress.
I laugh when my husband and I misunderstand the other's words and make up mad libs of what they said.
I have worn hearing aids for several years. Therefore, often my husband and I have rather interesting conversations. Here's one of the funniest: We have a sansevieras (plant) which was drooping from its weight. Hubby showed me two embroidery hoops which he said he planned to put on our sansevieras (to hold it upright). I replied, "Not on mine, your're not. If you want, knock yourself out on your own". I thought he had said, "I'm going to put them on our sensitive areas." (Hope this isn't too risque for you readers!)
Okay, laughing out loud at this- will be sharing it with my 6 sisters shortly. Healthy boundaries, good for you LOL
Evin, what do you mean? My husband and I could use some playfulness and I am thinking this would lighten things between us when we misunderstand
So he'll call across the house, I'm going to sweep the kitchen. I'll say, "you're going to sleep in the kitchen?"
LOL got it, I am going to work this in. Thanks
Pictures of people trying to sell mirrors.
https://www.boredpanda.com/funny-people-sell-mirrors-reflections/
Oh, this just delighted me. Thank you!
I have three foster kittens right now. They are Mr. Mischief, Mr.Into Everything, and Mr Who, Me? I laugh at them all day long as I try to contain their enthusiasm.
Memes - there have been some lately that made me laugh out loud - especially weather related - also videos especially animal videos. Pandas in the snow at the national zoo!
I LOVED that one! https://youtu.be/dGc-noRqmPU
Funny videos of animals, there are times when I laugh so hard I have tears running down my eyes!
We are laughing at the very tragic show, 'Shameless" on Netflix. It's tragic, ironic and brazenly funny and very well written and acted- and definitely NOT a family show. But here we are hooked and laughing (most of the time). It is also tender and poignant but those times are rare.
Jimmy Fallon hashtags on YouTube One time things were tense with my mom and we couldn’t seem to shake it so I showed her this one, and now we have an inside joke to lighten the mood “Ham Slapped” https://youtu.be/f0QfUrYKOhw
Nadia, there are a number of writers I've read in recent years, even popular among Christians, that focus a lot on personal happiness. I am a therapist and I am all for personal happiness, but I get uncomfortable with what sometimes seems like, "if it makes me happy then God must be for it." Do you see this cultural trend in Christian thinking and what do you think?
Leave it to us to pawn off narcissism as a virtue. I see this in some of the "self care" stuff. I guess I always go back to my Lutheran understanding of "simul justus et peccator" simultaneously sinner and saint. Meaning that I try to stay sufficiently suspicious of myself while also remembering that I am God's beloved. So that means trying to maintain a humility about my own motives and propensity for self-justification.
Yes, I like that, thank you. It also reminds me of Anne Lamott's saying "you can safely assume you've made God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do." It's just the reverse - maybe I'm making God in my own image if God likes and wants for me all the same things I do! At least I should be suspicious.
❤️Anne Lamott!
Awesome !
this is brilliant
I had "simul justus et peccator" tattooed on my arm where I can see it as a reminder of that very thing. :)
same!
That’s such a cool tattoo idea!
Help, i don't know what that means
Chuck, ‘simultaneously sinner and saint’.
Thanks, latin?
Yes
I have never heard anyone say to stay sufficiently suspicious of myself. Love it! As someone who works with the Ennegram I’ve become more conscious of my motives for doing what I do. Surprise! They aren’t always honest or humble!
Nadia do you also see though that—especially in evangelical culture—the one I grew up in also a PK and MK (pastor’s kid and missionaries’ kid)—we’re almost scum and can’t look at ourselves in any other light than as sinner in desperate need of rescue?
By that I mean—in case for some reason I’m not making sense—the focus is more on being a sinner rather than made in God’s image—which implies some goodness and being that God sacrificed their Son for us implies our value—that the word Grace has been misused?
I grew up feeling like I was pretty much shit and nothing was good about me, it’s just God. That I was to “die daily” and live in total humility and sacrifice.
I also had trauma in my life with assault and abuse so it just fed the fact that I felt worthless.
I came upon a group of people through some therapy that talked of my gifts and goodness and self love that is necessary and self care—Jesus himself being the very example of self care when he went to the mountain to be restored by the angels—but I was never taught that as a kid.
40+ years of hearing one thing only to be told something else makes it so hard to retrain my brain. And I’m still not convinced about how I should view myself or how I should live.
Not to mention the fact that even though I’m in a committed marriage and love my husband I came out as Bi—not necessarily to give myself a label but to finally accept that as ok because I had to suppress that in my evangelical circles and it has caused A LOT of anger towards the church for me and now I’ve even become angry towards God even questioning their existence.
Ok I know that’s A LOT and yes I see a therapist and she’s a believer herself but doesn’t shove that down my throat so there’s that.
Anyway I hope some of that made some sense and you’ll be able to respond I know there’s a lot of people on here.
My therapist LOVES you by the way!!! My hubby and I do too.
I relate to the PK MK+ Abuse issues. My therapist sees it quite often in paternal, evangelical, authoritarian Christianity. I've read some disappointing statistics about that, proving her point.
This resonates with me. My act of contrition, which was burned in my mind and I recited it often to “cleanse my sins” actually had this line: I deserve to be punished. That’s how I lived my life until I tried to debrief beginning in my 40s. It is traumatic! God and Jesus are love not punishers! Yes there are consequences for sin but that’s not God punishing me!
While I have never experienced actual abuse, I completely relate to the doctrine of worthlessness. Sadly it's only in the last few years that I've recognized it - that daily prayer of "God I am incapable without you" was crushing me and leading me to guilt about good I did have. My children were born easily and healthy, and I felt so guilty about it but also wholly incapable of being their mother. It takes a conscious effort on my part to reframe it: to say thank you for the good things and to believe that I am good enough to receive them.
Shit. That rolls off your tongue like nothing. But it is so profound.
Driving DoorDash makes others happy because I’m bringing food which in turn almost always makes me happy. And when something surprising slips in it can light up the whole day for both of us. The other day a delivery to a lady with multiple music tats prompted my comment about liking the group ‘Queen.’ And she immediately showed me her left arm tat of Freddie Mercury. That was around 2:00 p.m. Still smiling with joy for that delivery; now shared with all of you. 🦋🕉❤️✝️🌅
Someone once told me that true joy comes from knowing God and giving to others. Happiness is fleeting and based on circumstances. It’s complicated but that rings true for me.
Yes. This is where it lands for me. I did happiness. I found it a far distant second place to joy. Happiness is more like cotton-candy-coating my life; joy is more like deeply treasuring and savoring my life and the lives of those I touch, even when there's pain. And yes -- deep joy comes from loving and being loved in the Jesus way -- the hard way. I walked the cancer journey with my son and held his hand as he crossed over at age 29. We knew lots of pain; we knew lots of joy. I saw seekers of happiness and comfort turn away. I saw seekers of Christ-love and Christ-joy dig in more deeply.
Great question Amy, I wonder about that as well. Believing that happiness is sign of things being right, I guess that means you must really trust and know yourself. Someone must really have a good grasp on what happiness means for them versus a fleeting satisfaction or comfort.
Nadia, not a question but a story. I heard and I terview with you years ago on NPR. I have not attended a regular church every Sunday for years but I still read scripture, pray, and try to live the life God would want me to live daily. However, I was driving and could not write down your name down. By the time I arrived at my destination, the interview was over and I had forgotten your name. I searched for you as best I could but could not find you. Then last summer a friend of mine posted something about you on Facebook. "Praise Jesus! I found her!" I signed up for a subscription and followed you on Instagram that day. Thank you for your prayers and wonderful messages. I am one of those people in the corners and so are many of friends.
Glad you're here!
Nadia I am really struggling with the rise of religious fundamentalism. How is it that I, as a non Christian gay woman, can sit under your ministry, be comforted by your words of reconciliation and believe in the philosophical underpinnings that you direct your audience too, but then get so easily violated by the rhetoric of Christians who think its genuinely okay to say 'I don't agree with you being gay but I can respect you'. How do you even begin to challenge a statement like that? Its homophobia cloaked in niceness and makes it difficult to challenge. Yet how do I help a teacher with this view realise how hurtful and undermining such a comment is to her students who are gay. Please try and help me to understand how you can totally accept different sexual orientations while many Christians can't. I know a Christian absolutely dedicated to the fight against racism, but will not join in the fight against homophobia? How is it possible to be stand for social justice but only address those issue that challenge your religious views? Sorry for the ramble.
Humans can twist anything beautiful and make it ugly. Including Jesus and his teachings and power. It makes me sad too. But I for one, am glad you are here. Welcome.
Gays are God's gift to humanity. Most of gay friends and family I know have unbelievable talents and the pain of fear and discrimination they have endured often marks them as wonderfully sensitive beautiful people.
I have come to the conclusion that if I judge those who judge I am just as wrong. Live and let live. Nadia boltz weber
Nadia, what do you think. Ps, I am a lesbian who hangs out with Conservative christians. I just don't bring it up.
Unless they are homophobic.
I woke up dwelling on alone-ness and isolation this morning as well - not with the show - I will check it out. I actually was having a bit of a pity party. I am going through a divorce after 19 years of marriage. My husband who I crushed on even in my teens turns out to be someone totally different from what I thought. He is a narcissitic, and I find it hard to look back on those 19 years and find times when he wasn't lying to me and/or invovled in an inappropriate relationship with other women. But that is digressing I guess. I was acutely aware this morning that while I have lots of friends and family who I know love and support me, there is an aspect of grief that is utterly lonely and personal. I have known acute grief before. I became a widow when I was 29 years old. I truly thought I wouldn't survive losing what I now know was the "love of my life". But with God's help, I most certainly did. I never thought I would grieve on that level again, but while different, this grief is also familiar..... in its loneliness. In moments like this, only God truly knows my pain and the depth of that pain, and only God can truly walk me through this. So, I find myself utterly alone, again, except ........God. Thank God!!
Nadia, what was the defining moment for you? What make you know that this is what you needed to be doing? I have adored you from afar (and lurked in most of your corners) for years.
In my first memoir, Pastrix (which is being re-issued in May with a new piece from me) describes how I was asked by all my friends if I could do our friend PJ's funeral after he died by suicide. I hadn't gone to seminary of anything like that at the time, I was just literally the only religious person in our friend group. His funeral was at the Comedy Works (he was a comic) and looking out at the comics and recovering alcoholics and queers I thought "These people need a pastor" and then I thought "Oh shit."
That story brings up a question I have been thinking about for a while....why is it that communion must be served by someone “licensed, certified, ordained, whatever”? I would find it more meaningful to receive communion from some of my close friends than from a clergy I didn’t have a relationship with. Is this something that was just made up?
I come from a tradition where anyone can serve communion - and we do! I'm ordained, but part of what I love about the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) is that all are welcome to the table - and that all can serve. My young children serving me communion has surely been some of the most humbling and beautiful moments of my life.
I will be forever grateful that when at a Lutheran women's retreat we gave each other communion. I was able to give communion to my precious mother. It has comforted me in my grief in the loss of her.
I'm a life-long CC DOC member and the equality of all (clergy and laypersons--especially the inclusion of WOMEN at every level) is what keeps me in this denomination.
I'm CC DOC also. I was scheduled one Sunday to say the communion prayer at the table and upon arriving at church was told I had to switch and do the Words of Institution because our intern (who was going to Presbyterian seminary) was not allowed to say them because she was not yet ordained. I have to say I was a little dumbstruck. The words are in the Bible...how can it be we think it's appropriate only certain people in certain situations can say them? My appreciation for the power of lay people in the DOC church was cemented that day. I did not grow up DOC and I think I appreciate it all the more because I came to it as an adult.
Communion is a sacrament. A Sacrament can only be transformed into the body and blood of , instituted, by an ordained person. Of course if it is an emergency scenario, for example, the battlefield, anyone can do this and even do it with a ritz cracker and water. If one believes it will happen. I hope I am corrrect in this assumption taken from my studies.
I'm a Disciple, too. In our church, communion is jointly served by our pastor and two elders (at least during non-COVID times). I'm so grateful it is the center of each worship service. It grounds me and reminds me why I am in a church community in the first place.
Any congregant can serve communion once consecrated and I volunteer whenever there is an opening. This service is one of my greatest joys. To bring the body and blood of our Savior and Lord to the congregation of which I am a member is..... no word can describe.
Debbie - yessssss!!!! My favorite service of all time was when we passed communion from person to person within the congregation - to me it felt like the original intent of being in community and remembering Christ's importance.
Yes! I’m Catholic, and when I taught at a Catholic high school we would “pass the plate” at retreats. I remember so many teens not being able to look each other in the eye while saying “the body of Christ.” This is why I think some instruction or training would be useful for Eucharistic ministers. We older Catholics are used to a fast “assembly line” style of distribution by priests who seem willing to just want to get it over with quickly so they can get back to whatever else they do. Now that lay ministers (gasp!) distribute communion (This is Post-Vatican II and pre-Covid) in my experience most of them are much more engaged with the person receiving. When I served at weekly high-school Masses, I always looked the communicant in the eye, held the host right up to their face, and kept it there til they made eye contact with me, even saying their name if I knew them. This was always a profound experience for me, as I often served to former or current students, some of whom may have had a difficult time in school. Imagine the connection, over the body of Christ, with a student who’d be taking a test in my class later that day, or to whom I’d given detention the week before! Those were holy moments indeed!
P.s. maybe ordained priests think the important part is consecration, not distribution, whereas I think it’s the sharing that completes the sacred act.
Totally love what you wrote. I am a Eucharistic minister in a Catholic church and I love distributing communion. It is such a spiritual interaction. It's like the Holy Spirit fills you with grace to share with another .
It's like washing feet on Holy Thursday.
❤️
❤️
I was raised catholic, went to catholic school for 10 years, and know exactly what you mean by “assembly line” communion. The effect is desensitization and it sends the message to kids that there’s no real, deeper meaning. It’s nice to read all these posts.
❤️❤️❤️❤️
Yes❤️
Hi Debbie, Episcopal priest here, and I want to respond to the PS - for me it is a whole, both the calling of the Spirit to make this bread and wine a sacrament (sign) and holy and then the distribution to the Beloveds before me. It has been one of the things I have missed most during COVID - that looking into faces and eyes and giving them the "bread of heaven" as we say. In my tradition Eucharist is a communal act - I do not have Eucharist alone but only with others. I am so waiting for that day when again we can have those profound moments when ew connect with God and one another in this way.
I agree! I’m UMC also, and we have lay ppl serve communion regularly, we’ve served it across tables to each other for special holidays, and I’ve had the extreme gift of having communion in my home with a group with whom I’d conducted a book study. Our last meeting was shortly after I had undergone surgery, so we wrapped it up at my house with communion at the very end. We also bring communion to our shut-ins. It is consecrated first, but many of us are quite accustomed to serving or receiving from a friend either during a service or in other circumstances (Pre-COVID). I find that quite beautiful, all of it, from reading the words before and during giving communion, as well as receiving. It feels personal and maybe a bit more authentic at times.
Part of what makes the church transformational for me is the fact that it is not made up of my friends. I am forced to be in relationship with anyone who wanders in off the streets, including a number of people I would avoid if I could. Sharing communion with them is a powerful event.
Ordination is just the process the gathering uses to determine who to entrust with the role of serving communion. The church makes it really complicated, but really anyone the gathering chooses could fill that role.
I love your description of what makes church transformational for you. That is exactly as it should be. Sadly, I find so many churches one dimensional in terms of membership. I’m seeking the transformational community you are describing. Again sadly, I know quite a few folks that have been ordained who I don’t think should be entrusted with communion. A human problem to be sure.
Hi Debbie! In my denomination (UMC), anyone can serve communion once it has been consecrated by ordained clergy. We regularly have communion served by "regular folks", sometimes even confirmands or youth group members. <3
YESSSS. Involve the youth
Take time to teach them what its all about but YES involve the youth anywhere u can, they are not just free labor!
Excellent to involve youth and introduce youth anywhere. They too have some good ideas that we adults don't think about.
Yes they do. Hmmmmm, do I sense the presence of a youth leader?
But what's the importance/need for consecration by ordained clergy?
I feel it is more about my relationship with God. Every time I eat bread or drink wine I feel a communion with my God. We optionally receive communion by zoom these days.
In the UMC, we recognize two sacraments, baptism and holy communion. I guess for the same reason we use clergy to perform baptisms, to "administer the sacraments" is a duty of the ordained... in any case, they wrote a whole paper about it, but the relevant part to your question seems to be on p. 25. Hope this helps. https://www.umcdiscipleship.org/resources/this-holy-mystery-a-united-methodist-understanding-of-holy-communion
Hey Laurie - I am a Methodist, on my conference’s BOM, a delegate to our annual conference and have served communion many times. I understand what the Book of Discipline says but I also know there are things in the Book of Discipline that I’m pretty sure Jesus wouldn’t have said or didn’t really care about. Isn’t the Book of Discipline just a set of rules written by humans?
But ordained deacons may do baptisms - they cannot preside over full liturgy of Communion without special dispensation if the bishop and even then it is restricted to location - human rules. I just wonder if the Holy One is at all concerned about that sort if thing?
Yes Wyn, I think that’s my real question.
I too come from a UMC background and while yes, anyone can “serve” Communion AFTER and ordained clergy-person has preformed the proper liturgy AND anyone, truly anyone, can receive Communion there are rules about who can preform the liturgy. IMO it has become sort of a political thing. It is one of the things that can (and does sometimes) create a them-and-us between clergy and congregation. For me it is all a human thing. One of the ways we humans have chosen to set apart and give “authority “ (in the UMC it is called sacramental authority) to those who have met the institution’s “bar” to be an ordained clergy-person. How that happens differs depending on where you are geographically and a lot of other variables. In short - who can and cannot have “sacramental authority” is a human determination. If you step outside denomination world anyone can “preside” and provide Communion experiences. THAT is where I now live.
The ordained person has studied and prior to the start of study they were, as I call it, nudged by the Holy Spirit. They have been called to serve our Lord. Have known one person who studied but am sure was not called as this person was not a person of and with God. Once called, and studying has been completed and the call committee meets with and feels this person is truly devote enough to serve then they graduate seminary and can be ordained. Peter was the first to be ordained by Jesus and called. Then people were given this special privilege to bless the bread and the wine to transform it into the body and blood of Jesus. I believe if you do not believe this occurs then for you it is not the body and the blood, just a piece of bread and some wine.
This is such an important question.....for years I have been bothered by the notion that "regular" people can't "legally" gather and share communion together without some "ordained" man setting it up. I don't think that's what Jesus said at all....I think He wanted us to gather and remember what He did for us by celebrating communion together. I don't need (or frankly want) an intermediary in that celebration. And to be able to gather with others who want to celebrate together feels very sacred to me, even (especially) if someone hasn't said some "magic words" over it before hand.
I went to receive and the woman Eucharist minister was a woman that had demonized a another family in the church..it was a personal thing and she had an audience....and it was ugly and untrue....I could not receive from her...I tried but got out of line and left...and could not return..
So I guess my point is that to have the privilege of giving out the bread of life is sacred ...and I know there is judgement here...but to have that honor you should be someone who is trying very hard to be worthy of that...
I found another church...but I miss the comfort of my old church and then Covid,,,,, I may not have the bread...but I have the wine! I miss the church dearly ..I just don’t know where it is anymore.
Thank you! I totally agree!
Agree!!There doesn’t need to be intermediary. Not in my view. It is sacred but so are we.I think Jesus loves that we gather with friends and celebrate communion as well. Cheers to the tiny tumblers of wine and the mini crackers. 🦋
100%
Amen
Hi, Debbie! There are two legs to answer your question. They both have to do with church history and how various denominations look at Sacraments. Both have roots in the Western catholic church. On the sacramental leg, a lot of churches still believe in transmutation. In other words, the bread and wine literally or figuratively become the body and blood of Christ. So, they figure that someone who is ordained has knowledge and empowerment to make that so. The church history leg rather strongly depends on that, as the liturgical branches (Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, etc.) come out of that RC tradition.
While many the other end of the reformed traditions (Baptists, Congregationalists, etc.) did away with much of the RC tradition, some of that theological viewpoint still sticks. And with the rise of educated and professional clergy, there has been an internal drive to ensure that ordained people perform the traditions.
Personally, I'm with Nadia. Although I'm ordained, I believe Christ never meant his memory's consecration to be taken so thoroughly out of his follower's hands. When he says, "Do this in remembrance of me," I think that is what he meant, and the centuries long route was instead a deep rabbit-hole.
Thank you Jim. I appreciate the history you shared and your thoughts about Jesus’ intentions. So many rabbit holes...
My friends and I had zoom
communion just last week. It tied for the most beautiful communion I’ve shared- the other being between friends at Easter. ♥️
It depends on your faith. I attend a United Church of Christ Congregational Church and at contemporary services communion is served every week by by intinction...that is a person tears off a piece of bread directly from someone and dips it in a cup. We usually have 4 stations set up - one option is served by a minister and the rest are served by deacons. As a former deacon it was very jarring to be the one serving communion. Very much, "who am I to serve at this table???" but after a period of time it became a very spiritual practice.
My UMC often did Communion this way when we had in-person services. Now, 'it's do it another way or forget it.' Different times require different practices. We're fine with doing it at home w/o benefit of clergy.
Yes, in COVID times we are completely virtual and we take communion at home however it works for those who participate. I was speaking to when we did in person services :)
My UMC continues to have only Livestream services. My husband is on the reopening committee and they meet regularly via Zoom to assess the current local Covid situation. Their decisions are based on data, not on wishful thinking. As always, Communion is observed on the first Sunday of each month, with worshippers at home participating with their own version of bread and wine. Recently we used Snapple peach tea and corn chips, and guess what...no lightening strikes appeared! Conversely, I am staff pianist for a Presbyterian congregation (PCA, not USA). This group has Communion every Sunday and must be administered by an ordained minister. They continue to hold two services each Sunday morning. I do not feel comfortable attending during the pandemic, so on Saturday mornings I record all their music including hymn accompaniments, my prelude, postlude, and meditative music for use during Communion. In addition to being used in their services, my music is sent via email to those worshipping at home. However....they do not include my Communion music as they do not want people partaking of Communion at home. This seems to me to be another case of man-made rules.
I had orange juice and a piece of frozen bread. You’ve made me feel free to admit it
Yes it does! I have a friend that used Girl Scout cookies and milk for communion. No lightening strikes there either and I think those examples are symbolic of the “come as you are” approach of Jesus.
I'm a Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) Minister, and we celebrated Communion at Easter with chocolate eggs and juice instead of bread and wine for the kids present. There were complaints from the adults - that it wasn't chocolate for all!
This resonated with me. Over the years, I’ve purchased GS cookies from the daughters of many friends. I felt like I was participating in their growth and development by supporting their GS troop. Then everyone grew up and I just bought cookies occasionally from girls selling at supermarkets. Then COVID. This year, I bought GS cookies online from the daughter of a friend in another state, and one again, I felt happy about supporting another girl’s participation in GS. So yes, communion.
Love that!!!!
Hi.samo samo here. My (ex-)presb dictators would not let me serve communion to my youth group. Big opp missed, (shhhh, don't tell, but we might have squeezed in a couple, on the road)
I was a Deacon in our Presbyterian church and I was able to serve communion. Was I ordained, I do not think so.
Elders are ordained, I believe. I grew up Presbyterian but later became a Baptist minister. So I am relying on memory! In my local church we ordain deacons. They distribute the bread and cup.
Wow. That’s a really rude comment. She is a Deacon. And you shouldn’t be telling someone she isn’t something that she is. And yes she can serve communion and is ordained. After that post I’d never go to your church.EVER.That was same word and same big caps you wrote. Several strikes against you to be a woman in a position in the church? I told Janice I wouldn’t have given such a nice answer if you had sent me this message. Maybe you need to go to another church to learn some manners and respect .
You seriously need to check your own self. Your response is churlish, childish, and inexcusable. If this is indicative of the caliber of participation here, I'm not sticking around. Way to ruin things.
Actually, I WAS a Deacon snd we had other female Deacon at Broadway Presbyterian Church in NYC in 1998-2000. And we did serve communion. I do not know where you get your information from but what you are saying is not correct. IF you still doubt, I am sure the church would confirm this info. Their number is 212.864.6100.
This is a really nice reply to that person not believing you were a deacon.I wouldnt have been as polite. You re awesome. You don’t have to leave a phone number for them to check for themselves. Your word is good enough. Keep doing good work💜💜💜
Hi Debbie, I think the point of ordained is accountability. I appreciate that one cannot go off half-cocked making up things about communion with little understanding of the sacredness of the act, the grounding in scripture, the joining with those past, present and future. I want the person consecrating (making holy, setting apart) to have dedicated his or her life to a deep understanding of what we are doing . I knew a minister (who jumped from denomination to denomination) who thought it would be clever to consecrate M&M's and Coke for a children's Eucharist. Thank God there were other, more prepared people around him who dissuaded him from actually doing it.
Currently I have a foot in two denominations . With online services, one church has, at times, suspended communion and at other times consecrated the bread only during the service and made it available to pick up outside the church after the online service. In the other denomination participants bring their own bread and, in this denomination, juice, and partake during the service. The latter is much more meaningful and authentic to me.
In my opinion, it’s always been an old mostly white man power move.
My husband and I have discussed this questions many times and have wondered the same thing. We are Lutheran and during this time of only online services, we have served each other communion every Sunday during the service after the words of consecration are spoken by our Pastor. It has helped so much during this time to be connected with Christ and the community with those who worship with us.
I remember reading that (now that you've said it)! LOL .. I bought each of your books as soon as they were released. I need to read them all again. I hope is that someday, you'll be in my neck of the woods and I'll get the chance to come hear you in person.
where do you live?
Pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber, I am with Suzanne. I have followed your U-Tube posts. I listened to you from Australia. Listened to you when you were at our Youth meetings. Orating to the youth is what you do best. You have been there (where I have not been in my life) and you have never left you beliefs on the side of the road. You are a saint and a sinner every minute of your life. My favorite Bible verse in Romans 5 1 to 5. I love you, have read all your books. Just ordered one that I missed Saints and Sinners. I would like to invite you to my church, Lutheran church of the Palms in Palm Harbor FL. Have no clue to how many would come to hear you but I invited you. I will inform our council president that I have invited you. I do not really expect you to come to a small church in Palm Harbor as you must be very busy with your own life and activities. I just want you to know that I would love to meet. I would probably be speechless. I think you are great. I am just a simple old lady who thinks you have so much right. I also know that there is wrong in your life too.
I'm in Springfield Ohio
Boston here!
Please come to Boston
also in boston (suburbs)
There are no accidents
Looking forward to hearing more
Do things se more hopeful now you have a new president? Feels more hopeful to us over the pond
Definitely! The noise was relentless and exhausting. To hear a voice of reason and calm is reassuring.
It's been really nice to have him off Twitter. I think that alone has helped a ton.
Just mentioned to my husband that I don’t wake with the angst and wander the day checking repeatedly for what bad news there is. So yes, more hopeful. But I also live where the crazy lies and theories thrive and it gets worse every day here. I refuse to be driven from my home and so have to look to the hope of tomorrow.
Yes, it does seem more hopeful.
And white women. Courtney Martin just posted a great blog in which she interviews a high school senior (white) who has been studying the hidden (and not so hidden, as in Phyllis Schafly) work of white women in supporting white supremacy.
White Women have a lot of work to do. (I actually wrote about this on my own blog, Sin of a White Woman). Time to step into some Abolition Feminism (Angela Davis) and press upward, toward creating brilliant change with our Black and Indigenous sisters.
Nadia. I feel isolated too. Live alone. Took. Mental health day this week. It’s cold. It’s rainy. Want to read but all I seem to do is watch tv. But. You’re here. I have plenty of food. A warm home, my granny’s quilt. A grandson and another due in June. I’ll make soup this weekend. Carolina will play basketball. My parents are getting their second shot soon. I’m a mental health counselor and my practice is full. Thanks for giving me space to speak. Nadia you are a blessing to many.
stay warm. be good to yourself. xo
Nadia, I don’t have a specific question, but just wanted to encourage you! Your candor in Sunday prayers has soothed my soul. In your isolation, may God give you the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness. He’s given us beauty for ashes through Christ and the oil of joy for mourning.
Isaiah 61:3
thank you, Laurie
Just this morning I found yet another reason to be thankful. I'm an urgent care doc, somewhat stressed this past year. I decided to make a conscious effort to find good things in every day, because, you know, it's so easy to slide down the rabbit hole of negative thoughts. This morning I was headed in to see a pt with a very Arabic name, thinking he was going to be an entitled princeling getting an American education, then thinking "what is wrong with me, slipping right into those thoughts?". Well, yeah, what indeed. He is just a regular person, like the rest of us, who moved himself and his family to the US to search out opportunity. Whoa, JUST like the rest of us! He has a minor issue which he had been worrying about until it was huge in his mind. I was able to reassure him, he was very pleasant and thankful, and I was left with the reminder that we are all much more alike than different. Thanks, God!
Those little moments of repentance are what keep me believing in God - not the moments of piety and holiness, but when my heart of stone is replaced again with a heart of flesh.
Thank you for your honesty and story.
A friend and I recently mused over which of our relationships will be sustained post-pandemic. This isolation, frustrating though it may be, has a kind of purity to it. Some relationships, using brutal honesty, are more defined by social transactions or pleasantly distracting "clutter" than by substance. So far there have been no big surprises about which friends fall along the continuum from Substantive to Superficial, but there is still some small resigned grief about the truth of it.
True. But weirdly I miss the simple, situational interactions too.
Not weird at all. I think I’ve figured out that’s what I miss too. And like maybe without it, I’m getting socially more awkward 😂
I am definitely getting more socially awkward. I hope that isn't permanent.
Me, too. I call it "going feral."
Just bumping into folks at the office and having a quick chat! When I am there now occasionally, I am completely alone. There are new staff folks that I have yet to meet except vis Zoom - grateful for the technology, but I really miss our in-person staff meetings!
Yes, I miss the casual interactions, too, with strangers as well as friends.
Maybe I read this because of you but this poem was written have a national act of violence and I think of the simple acts and how I miss them. https://poets.org/poem/shaking-hands
That very thing is mentioned in that new book, Burnout: Completing the Stress Cycle, i.e., those simple, pleasant interactions and how they really do help us to feel okay. I'm with you in missing those. Remember when Starbucks offered no-contact pickup in the before-times? And it turned out that people preferred to stand in lines to get their coffee from human beings with a little pleasant interaction? *sigh*
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/01/pandemic-goodbye-casual-friends/617839/
"our affection for each other is in a period of suspended animation" What a perfect description. Thanks for sharing this link.
I miss the moments of unexpected connection and the blessings of being in the right place at the right time.
The value of those true friendships has indeed become clearer, but I do love the sparks of real contact that occur in the course of our pre-Covid daily lives.
I've been very interested in this concept and watching the friendships that have drifted away and those that have grown.
Nadia, a small group of us started a book club last summer. Our first book was “Accidental Saints”. We’ve read and discussed several of your books as well as some from other progressive Christian female authors. We refer to ourselves as “The Accidental Saints” - and it is certainly apropos. I guess I just wanted to take this opportunity to let you know that your honesty, courage, humor, humanity, and faith have helped me begin to resolve decades of distance and angst from my relationship with God and any sort of spiritual/religious community. When you’re having a hard day, I hope you can remember and realize the impact you have had and continue to have on others. With profound gratitude, Lisa.
Nadia, want you to know that you have provoked both laughter and tears in this rabbi. I am sharing your Sunday posts with my beloved gathering, hoping to open up more possibilities for authentic prayer and relationship with Divinity beyond the sacred texts.
Nadia, I am a 73 year old white woman, raised in a pentecostal, church but changed to ELCA Lutheran. Discovering your books and your ministry has been soothing to my soul. Thank you. Bless you. Beth L.
Just spent 20 minutes reading and skimming these messages and I do feel more connected to the Children of God. Love this. Thanks, Nadia and thank you all.
Nadia,
Turned 47 on February 6th.
Immediately went to bed at 9pm that night and have been in bed ever since. Diagnosed with positive COVID test on Feb 10th...
I have never felt this ill in my whole life
Pray for healing and covering for my kiddos isolated at home
Prayers for your healing, Adam.
Adam Happy belated Birthday. Hope you are recovering
Nadia, I always have questions but today I just want to thank you from all that is within me for being you, for putting this page together for all of us, for giving me and so many people a safe space to say we're not in agreement with certain doctrines or sometimes I'm not sure at all what I believe anymore (more often than not). It has helped me get through the toughest times of standing up for what I DO believe and won't stand behind anymore. Reading your books is so freeing and this is like reading/listening to you in person as much as possible. I live in a highly conservative place where everything revolves around church and Jesus and... and it becomes so oppressive and overwhelming -especially for an LBGT person who has been kicked out of the church multiple times. (NOT why I left the church, BTW - more about doctrine and my own clashing of beliefs). But thank you. Thank you for encouraging people to think and to love and to be who we are as followers of jesus - not cookie cutters. You rock. Keep hanging in there. I know you've lost a lot of your speaking engagements and so on during this time. Can't imagine how hard that has been for a whole year so unexpectedly. Thanks for being there for others even when you have your own "stuff" going on. So much admiration and gratefulness for you!
Sitting with anxiety, pain, anger, and asking for grace NOT to act out on them and just let it pass is my challenge at present. For me right now, moving forward actually means waiting in many situations and, damn, it’s hard.
Lucy a quote for you that helps me.
Let everything happen to you
Beauty and terror
Just keep going
No feeling is final
Rainer Maria Rilke
Thank you!
For me as well. A hurry up and wait series of medical appointments and decisions. I’m glad you brought this up because I hadn’t thought of waiting as moving forward before.
Nadia -- just wanted you to know that I'm applying to a school of theology and in my letter of introduction (or "personal essay") I plan to use you as my example of a "theologian who influenced you."
Nadia, I grew up in the Church of Christ in Alabama, meandered around a bit, then landed in a Lutheran Church. Everything you say resonates with me. I still carry shame, grief, and a lot of disappointment with myself that I think is connected to Church of Christ theology. Thank you for helping me work through that.
Pastor Nadia, I believe we share the same life-changing event, December 26, 1991? :-)
yes!! wow!
I was in Denver for an International leather Crafters convention about 6 years ago I noticed where is your church was located in relation to where I was in a hotel downtown. How I wished I would have had the time to come to church on Sunday morning but I had to catch Amtrak and had other people relying on me to get them to the station. I've been following you since and should sign up...
I've known folks similar to you in your former life in my former life as a fairly "clean" alternative living person running a Head Shoppe. ..I am now an ELCA member (...after having been raised in an LCMS parsonage)
So my admiration for you is one of semi- camaraderie. May the Lord bless you real good!! and if I don't see you in this life...I'll see you in Heaven!!!✌&❤! Wayne
Nadia, when are more episodes of the Confessional coming out? I miss it!
March 17th! It's been a slog and a saga...but we are almost there!
Thank you for the podcast. It is my favorite go to on my phone when taking a walk in my neighborhood. I know the neighborhood, so I don't have to pay as much attention to my surroundings, I andcan think more about what is being said.
Listening to your podcasts on my walks, has made me less judgmental, and focusing more on grace. Grace is hard to give AND especially to receive. Trying to keep grace top of mind has kept me just a little more sane during these strange months of COVID. (Just don't ask my family and friends if that's true.)
Nadia, I'm so happy to hear that! Please know what a source of comfort and strength you are during these hard times, especially because you share your doubts, fears, and vulnerability. I found you via your interview on Armchair Expert and was hooked immediately.
Oooo... a little birdie told me Season 3 is coming out in a month or so :)
Nadia, the flame of my faith is sputtering. Do you have any suggestions to fan the flames? I don't necessarily need a bonfire right now. Just a nice, warm firepit will do. Thank you.
RoseAnn, do not despair. Maybe it's just not your turn to have a strong faith right now. Borrow someone else's for awhile until it is you who has enough for someone else to borrow.
One of the things I've built into my routine is to go through my day as I'm saying my prayers at night and list out everything I'm thankful, no matter how small. Some days my list is longer than others and some days I'm repeating the same things I've said a million times. But it reminds me that there is good in this world and helps ground and strengthen my faith for another day.
All I have to offer is something I heard... the opposite of faith is not doubt, but certainty...continue to seek the truth.
This takes me back to a book by theologian Paul Tillich I read in college. He said, "The essence of faith is doubt." That has stuck with me for over 40 years. It is not real faith if you have certainty.
Tillich rules
Peter Enns' "The Sin of Certainty" is wonderful!
can you recall which book it was?
I believe it was Dynamics of Faith.
Thanks
Greg Boyd’s book “The Benefit of the Doubt” is excellent. He talks about how a lot of Christians idolize certainty, which leads to a house-of-cards model of faith that comes tumbling down if you question anything (i.e. pull out one card). He discusses his own model of faith which he describes as a series of concentric circles, with the center circle in the core being his belief that Jesus is the closest thing we know to the true nature and character of God...a terrible paraphrasing of what I read a few years back. As a result, his entire faith doesn’t crumble if he questions and changes his mind about different things, like the virgin birth, for example, as long as his core belief is there.
I like to think the opposite of faith as being fear
That’s an interesting thought. To me it seems anxiety is present in the absence of faith, so looking at it that way I see what you might mean.
I'm obviously not Nadia, but I've been in this place many times. A simple thing I do when I feel far away from God, or feel like God is ignoring me or doesn't care, is count the "coincidences" in my life, no matter what size. Small coincidences like being late for work but having the subway arrive 3 minutes earlier than usual, thus getting me there right on time. Large coincidences (which I only ever recognize in hindsight) like how I got turned down for a flight attendant job I felt in my core I was supposed to have back in November of 2019 and instead took a tech job I felt unqualified for and unmotivated by, only to be VERY grateful to have job security and safety a few months later when a global pandemic befell our world. Idk.... it just helps me see that maybe - just maybe - there's something bigger at play. And usually my faith picks up momentum from there.
I call them synchronicities and to me, they are where the Universe gets personal and Spirit shows up. I navigate by them when I can.
Yes!! This has happened in my life many times. And recently, I prayed and prayed for my son to get a new job that he desperately needed. He applied for several that he was well-qualified for and was even a finalist, but he did not get them. And I just felt so frustrated for him and frustrated that my prayers were not answered. Then he applied for another job that fit perfectly with his talents, experience, and interests. He was hired quickly, and with a better salary and benefits than the jobs he was turned down for. Clearly this was the job he was meant to have. And I gave thanks to God. And my faith did indeed pick up momentum.
So like many people, I'm finding comfort in food during this time! The Great British Bake Off has been my lifeline!
One of my favorite podcasts is "Off Menu" where the hosts ask celebrities their dream starter, main course, and dessert. What's yours?
Why hasn't Shane Claiborne been in "The Confessional" yet? I mean I'd love to hear you two take on the state of the world.
Great suggestion—He's great. If Shane has something to confess, we'd love to hear it :)
When you are if the age, 67 and you realize life has flown by what steps go you take to live in the now but figure out what you want to be doing for the rest of the years ahead
I am 66 and going through discernment to become a deacon in the Episcopal Church.
I've done this exercise and found it useful: Imagine your birthday party 20-30 years in the future, and three people that you love, who are most important to you, (living or dead - this is your imagination), get up to speak about what your life has meant to them and to your community. What would you most want them to say? Listen to the words, and let that inform you about what matters most to you. Then think of the action steps you can take to live out those values.
Another one: Think about the moments of sweetness and joy you've experienced in the past - what were you doing and who were you with? How can you bring more of that to your life?
I am in the same boat as well. I am finding joy in working with small organizations that need all kinds of help. And my small weekly group that is exploring how we “learn how to see” (a great podcast) is life giving.
I am in the same boat. Hoping that this pandemic will offer clarity but still waiting. Right now I just want to see family ad friends and do lots of hugging..is that a life goal :)
Sounds beautiful and yes it’s one of my goals. I have five granddaughters who live over seas I want do much to hug them.
Nadia, we lost our adult son to a drug overdose two years ago and have a friend in our church who recently went through the same thing. We are having a hard time with the guilt of course, but also struggled with the Christian invitation to always love and be there for the person struggling, as contrasted to the advice to set boundaries, and put our own wellbeing first. Our son had three children and a wonderful wife and we felt we needed to put the physical and emotional wellbeing of the children before our son's. Life is complicated!
❤️ Hugs and I’m sorry. My mother’s boundaries saved my life but I know she would have blamed herself if it hadn’t. Addiction is a viscous disease and you did your best to love him. I’m so sorry.
So good Erin, sending love and encouragement for you and your mom
I’m glad you made it. My son didn’t
Diane, my son didn’t make it either, three years ago this month. You are not the only one, for whatever that’s worth. Sending you the same love I am showing me.
I’m so sorry Diane.
Thank you. This is the month he passed. I’m glad to hear about you. Be well
Heather, we lost our adult son three years ago. We understand and push pull of this and I wanted to say. I hear you.
When I feel powerless, depressed, or isolated I have learned to do something for someone less fortunate than I. Doing so always helps me maintain perspective. About 24 years ago, I left my beautiful home and very successful husband (to whom I am still married) and traveled alone to a remote village in Africa. I lived without electricity, running water, a phone signal or internet, staying with a woman who ran a makeshift orphanage in her house. Chickens, spiders, and snakes wandered throughout the house. After one week, I was ready to give up and go home, but something told me, "Wait!" Within 2 months, my heart belonged to Ghana, and I ended up staying 5 years. Needless to say, I no longer felt powerless, depressed or isolated.
For the past 14 years, I have lived in the mountains in the Dominican Republic. I teach (again, as a volunteer) in 14 isolated villages in the mountains - areas where the only transportation is a burro, water flows intermittently or not at all, and electricity is off as much as it is on. People are poor. Poor. One of our 130 students is a paraplegic boy who writes using his mouth to hold the pencil or crayon. We have children 10, 11, 12 years old who cannot read, do not know their alphabet or letter sounds. Parents are also illiterate. Here, there is no time to feel so self centered when I am with others who have so little and yet also feel so blessed.
The best medicine ( in my opinion) for self-indulgence is sacrifice. That is what has worked for me.
Not everyone can leave home, go somewhere else in the world and volunteer. But everyone can do something to make the world better or to bless others. Feed the hungry. Visit the sick or elderly or mentally ill. Help a friend. Shovel snow. Carry out the groceries. Tutor a child. Or just smile- even when we don't feel like doing so. Most of all, wake up each morning and say, "Today is going to be a great day! I am going to pass on my blessings." Not every day is equally great. But always, I work to find my blessings and pass on blessings to others.
Hi Nadia,
I was born and raised Roman Catholic and decided that I wanted to become a priest for soldiers as a Military Chaplain...The big hurdle has been that I am a woman. So, I am in a random Christian seminary and will be ordained by a group of rogue nuns who were ordained by a rogue Roman Catholic Bishop. Upon ordination, I can either take the Army faith code "Christian" or "Catholic, other." I have also considered demanding that they allow me to use the faith code "Roman Catholic," because there is a major shortage of RC priests in the military. Ultimately, similar to your calling, my heart is committed to serving and providing sacraments to ALL soldiers regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc...an inclusive community is extremely important to me. If you were in my shoes, which faith code would you pick?
I am not Nadia but may I just say as a fellow practicing Catholic woman you are my HERO - and you will be no matter what you pick. I hope my daughter grows up to see you and others change the church for the better.
So here's something I've been wondering. I am getting accustomed to, even comfortable with this rhythm and pattern of life where I am no longer taking spontaneous day trips, spur-of-the-moment outings to fabric stores or quirky bookstores. I am not able to effectively differentiate lethargy or laziness from acceptance and contentment. As the pandemic eases, I'm wondering if I have allowed hindrances of all sorts to build up that will inhibit a re-immersion into a common life, and what practices will function as oil of seized-up, rusty hinges. Will I revert to being a back pew, last one in, first one out church attender? How "stuck" will I be?
I wonder that, too. Will I really want to oil the rusty hinges or will it be easier to let them continue to rust so that I can follow the increasingly screen-mediated trajectory I've been on for the past year.
Discernment and discipline in decent doses. I will need to let the Spirit wake me up to what new way of being I should follow.
Hi, Nadia. David Fosselman, here. Thank-you for your work. I have been watching the footage again this week from the Capitol riot due to the impeachment trial. My question for you is this: how does the predominantly white church shown in the footage repent and make amends and to whom do we do it?
Perhaps we (members of predominantly white churches) should stop being the predominantly white church.
Do you REALLY still have hope for the future of the church in light of all we’ve seen this last few years? It’s hard not to wonder if it will just fade into obscurity or whether it will morph into something truly horrible.
- a cynical pastor
church to me = Luther's definition: wherever the sacraments are rightly celebrated and the Gospel is rightly preached. To that end, yes I have hope for the future of the church because even if our buildings and colleges and endowments and camps and budgets are long gone I believe people will still gather in the name of the triune God, tell of the night Jesus was betrayed and the meal he shared with his faltering friends, hold up bread and wine, say it is his body and blood and that it is for forgiveness of sins and give it to each other, just as it has been done since that night so shall it be until the end. Those gatherings might be in homes or parking garages or parks, but it will be church.
My hope for the Church lies in its willingness to aggressively detach itself from its white supremacist roots and the ways in which that's all still intact today. That is, my hope is scant. But, my hope for the ongoing truth of Jesus and the Gospel are huge. New ways of being Church will emerge as the institutional church continues to drag its feet on addressing white supremacy (I'm coming from a mainline Protestant/Lutheran perspective).
I would love to hear more about your situation and John's below. I have seen pastoral leadership thrive and also get crushed. What do we need to do as a church to help you thrive? And, what is it that you find crushing that has made you lose hope? Peace to you both.
I can't speak for everyone but I can tell you from my perspective. This may sound overly dramatic (and I don't mean it to be - this is just the best way I can explain it and answer your question) but have you seen the HBO limited series on the Chernobyl disaster? There's a couple of scenes when workers pushed the limits of their exposure to help others resulting in their deaths from radiation poisoning.
As a pastor, you're subjected to a toxic world of people cutting you down and telling you all kinds of shit about how you're not "preaching the word" or bullshit like that. They're your biggest fan for a few years until some other church catches their eye and then they proceed to completely roast you mercilessly on their way out the door. Any time you try to move the church even a few degrees in a new direction you risk huge blowback that comes in form of people talking about you or even to your bottom line (since the church is a corporation that relies on the donations of it's constituents to do fulfill its mission).
In the middle of all that, there are people who genuinely want to emerge from their deconstruction and encounter the mystery and wonder of the Divine and those are the people you're trying to speak to and help.
But much like those workers at Chernobyl, you can only be exposed to the toxic environment for so long before you begin to suffer. I made it longer than many people do in ministry (and not as long as some). I just know that I need to walk away and detox before it's too late. I'm walking away from the church in full solidarity of people like Nadia and others like her, but I know that my time with that institution is done.
Disillusioned, I have seen the HBO series on the Chernobyl disaster! And, I think it's a good analogy. I have seen a bunch of toxic situations in the church. It's disheartening to say the least. My own disillusionment and dealing with a toxic situation was 25 years ago when I decided to "come out" to a few close friends at church. Peeing on the alter would have gone over easier. : ) But, I still felt God nudging me to be a part of the church. Not an easy thing when several of my friends at the time let me know what they thought about my "lifestyle". So, I held onto faith and moved to another church and denomination.
I actually went through a period of mourning as I left. The first Sunday visiting my new church the minister preached on why "everyone should be welcomed, including the LGBT community" at GCPC. I felt like he was preaching that sermon just for me. He didn't know me, but the Spirit knew what I needed to hear that day.
You and John may have a period of mourning, but I'm sure that will turn into a new type of morning. I know it may be tough after dealing with your own "Chernobyl" but continue to seek out God in your new life and let Spirit guide you in new ways. Even if it means becoming a designer! : ) (My career for the past 30 years)
May God bless you both in your new calling and my it be a place that you feel the presence of the Spirit in your lives.
That's a beautiful story MFechtling. Thanks for sharing that. I hope you continue to experience healing and welcome from those within the church and that you have the people to support and encourage you when you do not. Blessings.
My dad quit the preacher business when I was a kid it was like watching a balloon slowly deflate everything going out and nothing coming in i don't think he really ever recovered all the way.
Again, I am not Nadia. And, I agree with the one that said the white american evangelical church is beyond hope. And, it deserves to be. However, I do believe that the church is not a building; it's those of us that gather together and share our faith and our love with one another. I live in a small town and I have a church that when we aren't having a pandemic that I attend, but it does not feed my soul. It is too small minded for me. They are are in essence why I feel the church is doomed. They are not growing and changing or evolving as we see the sins of the church from the past. I have found this spot and claim it as my main way to be "fed" by the Lord. These little conversations replace some of what I lost when small group bible study quit having real meaning. My walk with the Lord has not suffered, but my walk with his people is changing. I think you may need to stop looking for an edifice, but look for where he needs you to be. Your cynicism makes you understand all of us who are dissatisfied with how the church is.
agree....church is the people not the building with a mortgage or rent...the monies that must be raised....so you have to be careful what you say or you won't be able to pay the bills. That becomes it's own business and then must be kept up.
I think it will morph but maybe not into something horrible
- a disgruntled presbyterian
I see hope as a non affiliated person. So many changes, more to come
Sorry, that question was for Nadia but forgot to tag her name in it (although I’d love to hear from anyone else as well, especially other disillusioned pastors like me)
I have a lot of hope for the Church as in the universal body of those who seek to hold on to the teachings of Jesus. I have no hope at all for the white american evangelical church. Those 2 things are not the same in my mind it at all, but living in the bible belt and small conservative community that took time to learn.
Exactly. Whole-heartedly agree. Well said
Hey man, I'm very much in the same boat as you... Was full-time pastor for 10 years and unfortunately needed to completely unplug from it to find any semblance of hope. I'm now 14 months out from full-time ministry and things are looking brighter (outside of the church). I know that's a pretty one-sided solution, but that's my story thus far. <3
Dang John, sounds like our stories are pretty similar! I didn't include this in my question above but I too am transitioning out of ministry after 18 years of full-time ministry and 10 years at the church I planted. I have one foot in both worlds as I finish up my pastoral transition in the coming weeks as I attempt to re-enter the corporate world (and assuming you're the same John Emery I Googled, you're even a creative designer like me).
I've done a lot of interior work these last four or five years so I feel pretty good about where I'm at in the process but I can honestly say I have no desire whatsoever to re-engage with the church. I'm not saying that as a bitter ex-pastor or anything. I have just given way too much of myself to that world only to see it morph into some kind of nationalized, radicalized, conspiracy-loving monster that I don't even recognize.
And yes, I know that there are lots of churches out there that are trying to engage with those on their deconstruction journeys and I wholeheartedly support their efforts. I just know that I don't have it in me anymore.
I'm looking forward to "things looking brighter" as you say on the other side of ministry.
Yes. I'm happy to talk any time if you'd like. You can schedule a call with me here: https://emery.com/john
WOW! Disillusioned Pastor and you are both looking or are working as graphic designers!? I've been an art director for 30 years, freelancing for the past 18 years. And, you both have been in full-time ministry. I feel for you both. I get that ministry is a tough gig. I hope in some way that you will continue with your ministry outside the church. I often donate my design services to my church or Presbytery to further our mission. Hopefully you both will find fulfillment in your new careers.
This is magic.
I left working in the church as a pastoral assistant and counsellor as I had hit the wall and was in deep burnout. 12 years down the track I am still wary and grateful I took the step. I've been working on community development with counselling and training since then and found my healing, to a large degree, in the privilege of holding sacred space for myself and others.
Spiritual burnout seems to be "acceptable" for those in ministry which makes me so sad.
I'm not out the other side totally but have found over time I have been able to attend church and have "church" in daily encounters with the community. It is there that I received love, acceptance, challenges and laughter most deeply.
For me, the online church has been deeply meaningful as I have been able to attend many deeply satisfying services with various interpretations of God.
I hope you have a good journey to finding yourself again,
Well, @Disillusioned Pastor,
I suppose the question is: How do you define church?
I don't know that I see it was ever meant to be an institution. I do think the mega church in particular needs to fall, it's far too much a business and glorifying wealth, the rich man who turned away when Jesus told him to sell all he had.
But the gatherings of 2,3 or more, right? Small buildings, homes, the coffee shop. But is it always going to be people who define themselves a "Christian?" - That word came after Jesus. Perhaps a morphing into a Christ Consciousness.
There IS a grass roots movement that's quite encouraging to see.
But there's a also a fight right now: mm, the old God v. the new, in a sense- the Old "ways" v. the new or renewed. Those who've benefitted from power are clinging like Gullam to the ring, while it's destroying them and Frodo is working to get that ring, back where it belongs for the sake of peace. :) #(r)Evolution right? Blessings.
My heart is telling me that after this pandemic others will show up in churches. Now there must be others out there who need a higher power to carry them through. I also believe there will be some weaker congregants who will blame god for this pandemic and not come back to churches. As I read my Bible there are thoughts that come into my head that perhaps God is angry with this world right now due to all the anger out there. Perhaps He has created a worldwide virus to wake us up. Then once done with my Bible and prayer time I come back to my senses and realize my loving God would not do this to his world.
Does anybody have any favorite recipes they've been making lately? I'm just about to get to enter back into cooking and baking after 8 weeks of no cooking post-shoulder surgery and I'm so excited I don't even know where to start.
I love this one: I add sage to it https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1021535-spicy-butternut-squash-pasta-with-spinach?action=click&module=RecipeBox&pgType=recipebox-page®ion=all&rank=35
13" X 9" pan,1 can pie filling first, then yellow cake mix + 1 stick butter, 350 for 30 minutes = Minister's delight.....yum
Nadia, when are you going to write a book of daily devotionals and/or a Bible study guide? Your voice is needed to bring the Bible alive and give it daily relevance to those of us who otherwise do not have the same level of rosy-colored optimism and Shirley Temple outlook to the world around us. Just a suggestion.
maybe some day!
The sun is a door of perception and mood enhancer in this year of the ox. I enjoy your posts though I’m not religious. So much to mourn yet also celebrate
GOODBYE RAT.
I'm feeling so hurt by my church leaders. 8 years of serving, every spare moment I had went to serving the body. My kids grew up in that building. It's all they know. I loved it. Thing is, I thought I was on a team, that we were a family. And it became very clear to me this past year when I was hospitalized due to mental health reasons (my husband had stomach cancer, whole other story) that that's not the case. I feel so hurt, alone, used and jaded. How do you overcome hurts in the church? How do you not let it effect your faith? Even just listening to worship songs can be painful. Never mind being a woman leader in the church with mental health issues! It's a lot to navigate. Any advice?
I'm so sorry you're having a tough time. Personally, I try to remember that the church is made of humans... and we very frequently suck. And then I try and figure out what it looks like to continue in relationship (or if I can continue) with those humans. It's not always straight forward and it's ok to need a break from any human(s) to sort out what you need
I find cliché platitudes to be irritating and eye-roll worthy even in the best of times, but especially during the past year. I find it infuriating when people give them as responses (it feels dismissive and invalidating), and I also find it infuriating when they get almost offended that I don't reply to their anxieties with them. (My go-to response has been "You're right. Things are really shitty right now. I don't have answers." This seems to rub people the wrong way.)
Any thoughts on polite ways to tell people where to go and what to do with their "everything happens for a reason" and "God doesn't give us more than we can handle" fluffy placebos?
I love your go-to response. It is so honest!
I managed well for a long time of the pandemic. Then I couldn’t. Too many losses and winter has created a question of whether it’s grief or depression. I find it difficult to find energy or motivation to do much. I know if I could hug my friends and warm sunny days would sure help. But it’s gray and cold in central USA.
You are not alone in feeling this - be kind to yourself....
Thank you for your approachability and transparency. You make it obvious that being human is not such a bad thing. In fact, a God-loved thing.
Nadia, I was wondering if you could say a prayer for my dear friend Karen. Two days ago she had a stroke in her eye and she lost most of her vision in that eye. She got treatment very quickly and is doing well under the circumstances. I’m just asking for prayers that her vision will be restored. She is my partner in crime. I love her so much. Thank you.
This weekend we celebrate the transfiguration of Jesus. I struggle to wrap my head around the biblical version but I do know that I have been transformed on many, many occasions. I am sixty after all. But in contrast to the somewhat solitary event ( with Peter, James, and John) transfiguration that is described in Matthew, I find my moments practically ALWAYS happen with community and connection and action- that is in doing something for someone else. Am I misconstruing what transfiguration really means and is it even appropriate to identify the biblical event with my own life experiences? Open to all to even share what moments you all may have had that mark a significant transformation in your life.
I’m what I’m still calling a “shiny new Christian” and this is my first Lenten season with Jesus in my heart. So, wow, it seems a little overwhelming, especially without being able to go to church (not that I have one yet). I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts on Lent. Thanks for taking the time to respond and for being a part of this amazing community.
I remember a wonderful Lenten sermon preached in my Episcopal church years ago. This wise priest, closer to retirement than ordination, framed the practice of giving something up for Lent not as a self-punitive act of repentance, but as a way of creating spiritual space. She described at one point tackling the daunting project of clearing her garage of old, no longer useful, things. Buried in the clutter she discovered some breath-taking reminders of who she truly is and how she is seen by God. From the pulpit she read from a long-forgotten report card from elementary school, in which the teacher described her (to the best of my memory) as a child who brought her graciousness, light, inquisitive spirit, thirst for knowledge and kindness to the classroom each day. Wow. Each year I now use Lent as a time to reinvigorate the never-ending practice of loosening my attachments to whatever emotional, physical or spiritual clutter sabotages my ability to dwell in the knowledge that I am deeply loved by God. Inhabiting this truth, and remembering that every "other" I encounter is similarly loved by God, is the prerequisite for discerning what is mine to do in the world.
I love that. Thank you so much for sharing. I also need to work on reminding myself how I am seen by God. Viewing Lent as a time to reinvigorate my focus is very helpful.
I like to think of my Lenten practices as mimicking the death and resurrection of Jesus - Jesus's death was necessary for him to resurrect, and create space for new life. What in my life needs to die to create space for new life? So for me that often looks like adding something rather than strictly giving something up, but I also have to recognize that due to my propensity for busy-ness, something usually has to "die" to create space for something new. My go-to is to write notes to people who have made a difference in my life, to thank them. I'm a firm believer that we don't tell people how we feel about them often enough or freely enough. For me, taking the time to write a note each day necessitates less time on social media, so I view that as the thing that has to "die" to create space for something new
I really like that of adding something. I so agree that we don't tell people often enough how we feel about them. Thanks for sharing that.
A meaningful practice for me in Lent is taking on a spiritual discipline, suggested by our pastor a number of years ago. I have added: doing a gratitude list every night, keeping a prayer journal, a Lenten specific devotional, and attending weekly midweek Lenten services. I would encourage you to find an online church for now (maybe ask some local friends) that will allow you to explore and learn virtually. You would be very welcome at our church, not sure the guidelines re “promoting” so I will leave it at that for today.
Thank you, that is very helpful. Discipline has never been my strength so it is a perfect time to start.
Lent means different things to different people. I'm a recovering Baptist; they don't really DO Lent. I'm Lutheran now, but I still don't give anything up. It may not seem helpful, but you really have to find what Lent means to you. It's a time for reflection, and giving something up (as people often do) can help, but it's not necessarily vital.
My only really Lent experience is from my vaguely Catholic childhood when I always gave up candy. I thought it was to make my Easter candy taste better. 🙂 I’m not sure giving something up is my goal this year but more reflection, and understanding, so that’s helpful. I need to remember that Christianity is a different path for everyone in it. So, your comment was quite helpful. Thanks.
One Lent season long ago a group of us discussed giving up something for Lent and supporting each other during Lent. Each of us decided on different things to give up. We checked on each other daily. I gave up coffee that year (what was I thinking). This idea may sound weird but it was fun and all of us stuck to our commitment the entire time.
Sounds like community was the key! Thanks!
Nadia (& whoever else has thoughts on this!),
Do you think God is active in details of our lives?
I’ve often heard people talk about God having a mplan’ for where we live, who we meet and so on. But I’m not sure - maybe God trusts us to make our own decisions. Do we think praying asking God for a job /house / spouse a waste of time?
Love to hear your thoughts.
My hubby and I have a similar discussion all the time. He believes God doesn't care about the details. I do not know if He cares or not but I will continue to pray like He does and thank Him for the small details just in case.
This is a head scratcher for me as well. I know this kind of thinking comforts people and frames their lives, no matter what occurs. It seems a bit far fetched to me. I believe God will guide me and put people in place for the purpose of creating a new heart within me, but not sure where he is in all the details, nor can he force me to rise to the challenge of change. As far as the details, I don’t think he had much to do with the trifecta of my refrigerator, washer and dryer going at the same time. LOL.
I also don't believe that God had anything to do with that awful trifecta. I think that what God does and does not intervene in is a mystery, one that I am willing to live with - so many mysteries abound. But at the the same time, I do believe God is intimately interested in, and involved in, how we react to anything. I recently tripped and fell on a sidewalk, split my lip, busted my knee. Some would say that was part of God's plan. I say my reaction to it, and how I subsequently dealt with it (it's now a funny story: a construction worker, when he saw me fall, yelled "Senior citizen down! Senior citizen down!" I didn't know who he was talking about.) were informed by God both in there moment and in accumulation of trust.
I've kind of always felt that God works in algorithms. Such as, I grew up in Pittsburgh, but then moved to Erie. I believe, had I stayed in Pittsburgh, I would have found my people. When I relocated, God switched up the original plan and led me to my people here. Does that make sense? Others would say that God always knew that I would relocate, but I'm not so sure. We have free will to move around, and we've certainly seen people make disastrous moves. God moves with us, but we're not just pawns on a chess board. In that sense, my prayers are for God to be with me where I am. I certainly ask for discernment and guidance, but I also recognize that a large part of decision-making is left to me.
Yes I do feel God is lovingly active in the details of our live while respecting our free will. We notice them more the more we pay attention to God and sometimes we need to just move ahead ourselves in prayer and supplication....
I believe that God has a plan for us, but also that we have free will. There are times in my life where things just seem to fall into place. And when I look back on all the things I've been through - good and bad - sometimes it feels like it is so clear how they have all led me to where I am in my life at this moment. But I also know that praying doesn't mean things happen over night, you have to be willing to put in the work and also be willing to keep your mind and heart open to the direction he is calling you in.
Good question. I think God creates us with unlimited potential for good (in experiences and in ourselves) and it's up to us to get out of the way. In those situations, I usually pray for help to see the solution that's already there/been provided. So, not a waste of time at all.
I had to put my 20 year old cat down. I am afraid I did the wrong thing, however, I just did not want him to go through the trauma of a terrible procedure. I could not afford to do the blood work, shots to get him under anethesia. He has only been to the vet twice and he could have a heart attack and I wanted him to quit while he was ahead. Might have been one of the most selfless things I have done.
I am not one to have them hang in there until the bitter end.
Kind of makes me think Euthenasia and whether or not it is ethical? What do you think?
And do cats go to heaven?
All animals go to heaven ❤️
Carrie t, I am so sorry for your loss.
20 is a ripe old age. It's never easy and as a caring human, you always wonder if you did the right thing.
My husband and I have taken to rescuing older cats when something happens to their human, and as such, we have had to deal with this question more often than most people. (5 in 10 years)
I don't really know whether it's ethical or not, but I do believe that decisions made out of love are the best we can do.
And, as to whether cats go to heaven? I hope so, but I suspect they are still here with us, making sure we behave.
Smile
Pastor Nadia, what has kept you on the path with the lord and not turning back to old ways or habits??
Here is my question for you Nadia. How do you try to practice being in the presence of Christ all day long? I’m great at it in my morning quiet time and then... real life begins and once the quiet is gone my mind and emotions are off to the races!
Good Lord - ALL DAY??? If I can manage 10 minutes it feels like a huge victory.
I don’t know Nadia. I hear your answer but I’ve read the mystic poets Rumi and Hafez and they are in this incredible relationship with divine love; there is a fire that doesn’t go out. I read the letters of Brother Lawrence and I think it’s possible to be in loves presence and I just don’t know how to get there. I want that equanimity of spirit that is able to be at peace even when circumstances deem otherwise. I want to believe it is possible for more than 10 minutes a day. That just doesn’t seem like the abundant life Jesus claimed he came to give. I was hoping that you thought it was possible too and that that is why you followed your heart Into the ministry.
I'm not a mystic. Or an example of constant faith for others to follow. I am just someone who is in need of grace and tries to point to The One form whom grace flows.
I guess I'm kind of cynical. It seems like many of the mystics who wrote about being in the constant presence of God had their daily needs taken care of by others. The rest of us have to pay bills, clean house, cook meals, go grocery shopping, do laundry, etc. Those everyday tasks and challenges tend to distract me from being focused on God 24/7. In the depth of my soul, there is a Knowing that I am one with the Beloved, but there is a human duality that divides my mind.
Other mystics did nothing BUT chores and daily tasks ..all seeking to do so in the presence of God. I'm thinking more of monastics than mystics here maybe :) point is they brought their human duality to God this way
Checking in with my body .. whether a quick little yoga video in the afternoon or just a walk and some deep breaths...helps me be more present to myself and make space for spirit/christ work in me (another way of thinking if it is letting my clutch on my other stressors, plans, to-dos, and fears drop for a second). I read somewhere this year (maybe a richard rohr email?) that Christ was the human who always remembered how to be himself. Or never forgot himself. Something like that. That floored me.